Good day!
DISCLAIMER: I have no formal training in anything regarding city planning. I simply don’t enjoy cars that much and I would love to find some discussion and hope among the endless doomposting.
For me, the /c/fuck_cars community (and the original /r/fuckcars) leave something to be desired. Because I have already become “based and trainpilled,” reading through the communities feels a bit like beating a dead horse.
I have heard too much about the Netherlands for one lifetime, as someone who lives in the states. Maybe my perspective is flawed here, but: the Netherlands have a GDP greater than every US state except for 4 of them (California, Texas, New York, Florida), and the Netherlands have less land area than 41 of US states. This isn’t to say that the Netherlands has no city planning feature that should be ignored because they are so unique, but I think that is exactly what the Netherlands are: unique.
Anyway, on to the meat and potatoes!
- If you had to recommend livable places for like-minded people to move to, what city or state would you recommend for anyone? (it must cost less than both an arm & a leg. One arm or one leg is acceptable…)
- Which state(s) policy in your opinion seem to be heading in the right direction as a whole?
I disagree with some of your criticisms of this community:
Netherlands have a GDP greater than every US state except for 4 of them
Walkable cities are cheaper than car infrastructure. Lots of good work was done by Urban3 demonstrates this be calculating the tax income vs tax burden of city blocks. For example, here is their analysis of my city: Eugene Oregon
less land area than 41 of US state
NJB calls this “The Dumbest Excuse for Bad Cities”
the Netherlands are: unique.
I disagree. Lots of developed countries in Europe and Asia have desirable urban disign. In fact, I would argue that the USA is uniquely bad. Heres a graph from vision zero:
But for the meat and potatos:
If you like spreadsheets presented as a youtube video: you should check out citynerd. Here’s a video where he lists cities with affordable, walkable neighborhoods: 10 Walkable US Cities That Won’t Bankrupt You. Spoiler: Pittsburgh wins.
I think that parking reforms is the best way to move away from car dependency, and these are being mandated in the state of Oregon, which has also had urban growth boundaries for a long time.
Also, this just came out Are Dutch Cities Really that Different? Debunking Cycling Myths
Thank you for the comment and infographic.
I disagree. Lots of developed countries in Europe and Asia have desirable urban disign. In fact, I would argue that the USA is uniquely bad.
I totally, 100% agree with you here. I’ve seen that tax income vs tax burden graphic before as well and I think it is a great way to visualize the effectiveness of commercial space used in a city. I truly wish that suburbia would adopt better zoning laws…
*EDIT (for the paragraph below): I just watched another video titled “Are Dutch Cities Really that Different? Debunking Cycling Myths” - which addresses exactly my angst! This is the quote: “If cycling advocates focus too much on the Netherlands… if it’s always the example that gets brought up… regular people and cycling critics will understandably get a little suspicious, and assume that cycling is just a quirk of one unique country. People arguing for bike infrastructure need to be able to talk about other places: London, New York, Vancouver, Bogota, Tokyo, and so on…”
I wish I had specified that I think that the Netherlands is unique specifically about biking. They seem to be at the top of many of the cycling metrics, sometimes by a lot. For example, the Netherlands is the only place with more bikes than people! To me, it’s no wonder, considering the bike culture predating WWII, and limited space, that such a small country would end up with some of the highest-quality, high-density bikable nieghborhoods on the planet. Hopefully my rant feels a bit more grounded in reality then…
NJB calls this “The Dumbest Excuse for Bad Cities”
Haven’t seen this one yet!
*POST-WATCH EDIT: That video was pretty darn sad. Hopefully the situation will improve within my lifetime :(
If you like spreadsheets presented as a youtube video: you should check out citynerd. Here’s a video where he lists cities with affordable, walkable neighborhoods: 10 Walkable US Cities That Won’t Bankrupt You. Spoiler: Pittsburgh wins.
I’ve seen it, and I have lived in one of the cities mentioned. It was a good time, I only wish it had more separated bike lanes!
I think that parking reforms is the best way to move away from car dependency, and these are being mandated in the state of Oregon, which has also had urban growth boundaries for a long time.
I have been trying to find a nice state in my spare time and so I’ve put them in a little text document. I will move Oregon up on the priority list, I hadn’t heard about the urban growth boundaries. Thank you!!
The Netherlands certainly isn’t unique enough that America couldn’t have gone down the same path. But we didn’t. I think you’re right to say that America is uniquely bad. I think our path toward a better future will necessarily look different than it did for a lot of European and Asian countries. Most of those places didn’t fully invest in car-dependancy the way we already have. I’d wager the future American city will be much more walkable with better transit, but it won’t look like the countries which built that way to begin with. There will likely be signs of the past as we figure out viable transition strategies.
I live in the south. Years ago, a trend started of turning old textile mills into trendy apartments. The old railroad station in my city was converted years ago into bars and restaurants. In both cases, disused infrastructure was repurposed to fit the needs of the times and the old uses are still visible. I could see some sort of similar signs of the past emerging on a future America.
#1 USA! USA! USA!
I think a lot of land in the Americas should be returned to nature, and the people should move to dense housing in cities.
yeah my partner lives in arizona and thinks the whole place should be turned into a giant solar farm
Do you have any ideas for a pathway to that goal? I don’t see suburban homeowners voluntarily giving up their land to move to a city.
voluntarily
Well…
You jest, but in these parts there’s been plenty of landslides and flooding in the last decade or so. The affected zones are typically very low density. The government is calculating that neither repeatedly rebuilding or adapting to the new climate is affordable for those remote areas and the only help offered is for relocating. The massive forest fires is a new thing as well that provokes the same kind situation.
This is a fairly limited phenomenon so far, but I wonder to what extent the increasing cost of climate adaptation on the infrastructure will make us densify, whether we want to or not.
I only somewhat jest! In these parts there was a mega flood over a decade ago (holy shit it’s been that long…?) and that cut off entire towns from the nearby cities, leaving them with no access to hospitals or groceries or pharmacies or gasoline. Everyone’s cars just became decorations and we were trapped.
Could do a command economy that relocates communities into mid-rise apartment blocks in urban centers.
Chicago has great transit, two major airports, is the primary rail hub of the US, and has substantial bike infrastructure. We also have affordable neighborhoods although you will need creativity to bike them safely. A lot of our streets aren’t that wide so cars are limited in how much they can speed. There’s a really active biking community and we have some great resources like mellow bike map for getting around neighborhoods not yet connected by formal infrastructure.
I think coastal New England has a lot of potential, specifically Portland Maine, Portsmouth NH, and Boston.
I lived in Portland for four years: its downtown is very walkable/bike-able, they have decent transit options (buses, Amtrak, airport), and seem to care about growth towards people/pedestrian-friendly designs. They’ve been building up their bike lanes, running a bike sharing program in the non-winter months, and are starting to construct denser housing. If I had to settle in the U.S. somewhere, I would personally choose here.
Portsmouth has a smaller downtown, but its also very welcoming to pedestrians. I’m confident they’ll continue in the right direction too.
Boston’s much larger than either of these, though that comes with strong public transit through bus, train, etc. A better choice if you like big cities.
I’ve been to Portland, ME a few times for vacation and one time a few of us decided to bike everywhere. Couldn’t go car free since our hotel was a bit far away, but once we parked, it was bikes all day. There wasn’t a ton about Portland that made it stand out in terms of places you can’t find in other towns, but the ability to ride around to all those places made the difference between a vacation destination and just a thing to do for a weekend.
To have the same experience in terms of types of places to visit in a day my area would require driving 10-20 minutes between each spot which definitely takes the winds out of the sails for trying to enjoy yourself.
I’m about to move from College Park, MD to Denver, CO. Both are very car dependent, but have a strong set of politicians and activist groups that are working to change that.
To give an argument for college park, here is what the town currently has going for it.This town won’t be a cycling paradise from day one, but it’s a great place to live for the long haul to help shape it into one in the next decade. That being said, this is the town I know, so I would bet there are many others out there that are on the cusp of offering serious alternatives to cars.
In College Park, we currently have:
- a decent north/south shared use path that connects to the massive local trail system
- connection to DC via the Metro and the MARC trains
- connection to Baltimore via the MARC train
- elected officials that are all in on transit oriented design and affordable housing
In college park in the coming years, we will have:
- unprotected bike lanes on Rt. 1 (the north/south stroad that cuts the town on half), but the city government is trying to work out a deal with the state to change them to protected. ETA 2024, still up in the air
- a light rail going east/west through town connecting to many other metro lines, with shared use paths on either side. ETA 2026
- upgrading current bike lanes on Rhode Island Ave to protected. ETA 2024, still up in the air
The state of Maryland had a Republican governor until this year. Now, the new governor and his department of transportation are less likely to get in the way, so I do imagine the town will be able to get what it wants from the state.
Nice choice on Denver! If you enjoy mountain biking, you need to check out the Colorado Trail, which is over 450 miles long!
You self proclaime to be “based an train-pilled” but ask the same questions about US being so large and not rich enough, essentially beating a similar dead horse that comes up constantly from car brains. If you watch the latest NotJustBikes video or the latest “Oh the Urbanity” video, you’d find this argument debunked in great detail, again.
You self proclaime to be “based an train-pilled” but
Yes.
Please take your attitude back to r*ddit.
I have used the same words you yourself have used (including the highlighted “but”). Will you also go back to Reddit with me?
Maybe my perspective is flawed here, but:
I am sorry for my harsh language. The arguments you used about the US being too large or not having enough infrastructure are have been debated to death and has been posted in r/fuckcars in discussion format as well has in meme format, so it was a bit hard for me to believe that you haven’t come across them.
Thank you for being understanding.
Will you also go back to Reddit with me?
Sorry I have something coming up this weekend, maybe we can try for next week? :)
it was a bit hard for me to believe that you haven’t come across them.
I genuinely haven’t, but I also haven’t been following r/f*ckcars ever since the City Nerd incident. *shudders*
spoiler
(actually, it was because libreddit was killed due to the API changes)
