Good day!

DISCLAIMER: I have no formal training in anything regarding city planning. I simply don’t enjoy cars that much and I would love to find some discussion and hope among the endless doomposting.

For me, the /c/fuck_cars community (and the original /r/fuckcars) leave something to be desired. Because I have already become “based and trainpilled,” reading through the communities feels a bit like beating a dead horse.

I have heard too much about the Netherlands for one lifetime, as someone who lives in the states. Maybe my perspective is flawed here, but: the Netherlands have a GDP greater than every US state except for 4 of them (California, Texas, New York, Florida), and the Netherlands have less land area than 41 of US states. This isn’t to say that the Netherlands has no city planning feature that should be ignored because they are so unique, but I think that is exactly what the Netherlands are: unique.

Anyway, on to the meat and potatoes!

  • If you had to recommend livable places for like-minded people to move to, what city or state would you recommend for anyone? (it must cost less than both an arm & a leg. One arm or one leg is acceptable…)
  • Which state(s) policy in your opinion seem to be heading in the right direction as a whole?
  • @[email protected]
    23•1 year ago

    I disagree with some of your criticisms of this community:

    Netherlands have a GDP greater than every US state except for 4 of them

    Walkable cities are cheaper than car infrastructure. Lots of good work was done by Urban3 demonstrates this be calculating the tax income vs tax burden of city blocks. For example, here is their analysis of my city: Eugene Oregon

    less land area than 41 of US state

    NJB calls this “The Dumbest Excuse for Bad Cities”

    the Netherlands are: unique.

    I disagree. Lots of developed countries in Europe and Asia have desirable urban disign. In fact, I would argue that the USA is uniquely bad. Heres a graph from vision zero:

    But for the meat and potatos:

    If you like spreadsheets presented as a youtube video: you should check out citynerd. Here’s a video where he lists cities with affordable, walkable neighborhoods: 10 Walkable US Cities That Won’t Bankrupt You. Spoiler: Pittsburgh wins.

    I think that parking reforms is the best way to move away from car dependency, and these are being mandated in the state of Oregon, which has also had urban growth boundaries for a long time.

    • @[email protected]OP
      6•1 year ago

      Thank you for the comment and infographic.

      I disagree. Lots of developed countries in Europe and Asia have desirable urban disign. In fact, I would argue that the USA is uniquely bad.

      I totally, 100% agree with you here. I’ve seen that tax income vs tax burden graphic before as well and I think it is a great way to visualize the effectiveness of commercial space used in a city. I truly wish that suburbia would adopt better zoning laws…

      *EDIT (for the paragraph below): I just watched another video titled “Are Dutch Cities Really that Different? Debunking Cycling Myths” - which addresses exactly my angst! This is the quote: “If cycling advocates focus too much on the Netherlands… if it’s always the example that gets brought up… regular people and cycling critics will understandably get a little suspicious, and assume that cycling is just a quirk of one unique country. People arguing for bike infrastructure need to be able to talk about other places: London, New York, Vancouver, Bogota, Tokyo, and so on…”

      I wish I had specified that I think that the Netherlands is unique specifically about biking. They seem to be at the top of many of the cycling metrics, sometimes by a lot. For example, the Netherlands is the only place with more bikes than people! To me, it’s no wonder, considering the bike culture predating WWII, and limited space, that such a small country would end up with some of the highest-quality, high-density bikable nieghborhoods on the planet. Hopefully my rant feels a bit more grounded in reality then…

      NJB calls this “The Dumbest Excuse for Bad Cities”

      Haven’t seen this one yet!

      *POST-WATCH EDIT: That video was pretty darn sad. Hopefully the situation will improve within my lifetime :(

      If you like spreadsheets presented as a youtube video: you should check out citynerd. Here’s a video where he lists cities with affordable, walkable neighborhoods: 10 Walkable US Cities That Won’t Bankrupt You. Spoiler: Pittsburgh wins.

      I’ve seen it, and I have lived in one of the cities mentioned. It was a good time, I only wish it had more separated bike lanes!

      I think that parking reforms is the best way to move away from car dependency, and these are being mandated in the state of Oregon, which has also had urban growth boundaries for a long time.

      I have been trying to find a nice state in my spare time and so I’ve put them in a little text document. I will move Oregon up on the priority list, I hadn’t heard about the urban growth boundaries. Thank you!!

    • @[email protected]
      4•1 year ago

      The Netherlands certainly isn’t unique enough that America couldn’t have gone down the same path. But we didn’t. I think you’re right to say that America is uniquely bad. I think our path toward a better future will necessarily look different than it did for a lot of European and Asian countries. Most of those places didn’t fully invest in car-dependancy the way we already have. I’d wager the future American city will be much more walkable with better transit, but it won’t look like the countries which built that way to begin with. There will likely be signs of the past as we figure out viable transition strategies.

      I live in the south. Years ago, a trend started of turning old textile mills into trendy apartments. The old railroad station in my city was converted years ago into bars and restaurants. In both cases, disused infrastructure was repurposed to fit the needs of the times and the old uses are still visible. I could see some sort of similar signs of the past emerging on a future America.