• @[email protected]
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    663 months ago

    Well yeah. What irritates me is that leftists aren’t asking for anything that big from Biden this time. They just want their government to stop funding and facilitating a genocide. They just want Biden to stop being wishy washy and come out definitively against this genocide, and take actions to discourage, and I can’t stress this enough, a fucking genocide.

    And he’s saying “no.” And then democrats are trying to shame leftists for not voting for someone who won’t stop helping another country commit genocide.

    It’s fucking insane.

    • @[email protected]
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      263 months ago

      Your fundamental choices here are

      A) A guy that’s calling for a ceasefire

      or

      B) A guy that’s calling on Israel to speed it up

      If you don’t vote for A, you’re effectively voting for B.

      I don’t like it one bit, but that’s why people–and I mean everyone–needs to learn to be strategic in their voting.

      • @[email protected]
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        -53 months ago

        You can’t just pay lip service and then continue to fund the ones doing the genocide and expect me to give you points for that. You can try and convince me otherwise, but at the end of the day I am not voting for anybody that supports a genocide. I can’t, and I fucking won’t. If Biden doesn’t want the guy who’s calling for him to go to literal prison to gain power all he has to do is not facilitate a genocide and if he cannot bring himself to do this simple thing then I can’t bring myself to vote for him.

        This is all hypothetical for me because I’m Canadian, but this is how leftists in America see the issue. And y’all keep parroting the same lesser of two evils nonsense you always peddle that never works. Why is it that it’s so much easier for you guys to tell leftists they need to vote for genocide than it is to tell democrats that they need to tell their leaders not to facilitate a genocide? It boggles my mind and makes absolutely zero sense to me.

        • @[email protected]
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          103 months ago

          People focus obsessively on the presidency for zero reason. Many don’t even vote in non presidential elections. Effectively squandering their vote.

          The presidency is a symptom of the larger party. We’ll never change the presidency until we change the underlying party. Because let’s be clear. The House and Senate could be pushing back against the president for what he’s doing if they wanted to. They don’t. And that’s the larger problem.

          We can have a much bigger impact on House and Senate elections than we will ever have on the presidency or the presidency will ever have on us. I wouldn’t give a flying fuck who was president as long as the house senate Etc was in order. They’d keep him in line.

        • @[email protected]
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          23 months ago

          If you’re not actively fighting against right-wing nationalism, then you’re complicit. Your inaction will give aid and comfort to the people that seek to do harm here. Or, in your case, in Canada. I saw how Trump infected your own right wing, and how the cancer has spread north of our border. Unless you’re okay with that consuming your country too, you better do everything in your power to fight against it, even when it means that you’re supporting some shit that might not like. Because voting is triage.

            • @[email protected]
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              13 months ago

              I think that everyone here wants the genocide to end. But you, as a voter, do not have any choices that will immediately stop the genocide. Your choices are either a person that’s calling for a cease-fire, or a person that’s telling Israel to pick it’s pace up. Sitting it out means that the guy calling for more and faster genocide is much more likely to win, which means you’ve effectively voted for more effective genocide.

              You want real, lasting change? Start local, with city elections, and then moving them to state office, and up to national office.

          • @[email protected]
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            -33 months ago

            lol what you’re saying is insanity. If I don’t want to support right wing movements, I should support voting for a Democratic Party that is continuing to push things to the right?

            What utter nonsense.

            • @[email protected]
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              03 months ago

              Let’s say you’re in Topeka, Kansas. You want to go east, to New York City. You’ve got one bus ticket to anywhere, and no other cash for a motel or plane ticket. There are only two buses, and you have to choose one of them. There are no other options; you can’t sleep in the station and hope that there’s another bus eventually, and walking to New York isn’t very reasonable. One of buses goes west, to Los Angeles. The other one is going north, to Minneapolis. Which bus are you getting on?

              That’s what your vote is.

              If you want to vote Republican, you’re going to be even farther from where you want to be, and it’s going to be harder to get to your destination. If you vote Democrat, you’re at least not moving the needle by much, which is the least-bad option that you have. Yes, there will be harm if Biden is elected. There will be far more harm if Trump is.

              • @[email protected]
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                3 months ago

                Did they do this description on some popular liberal podcast recently or on some democrats meme page or something? Because you’re all parroting the exact same bullshit analogy to me every time.

                It’s the same thing that happened with Trump VS Hilary. The shaming leftists into supporting the democrats thing doesn’t work and will lose you an election. Time to try something different.

                Or don’t learn from your mistakes, I don’t give a fuck. Just stay out of the way of leftists when it’s time for actual change and they’re the ones actually fighting for it in your country, as usual.

          • @[email protected]
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            -63 months ago

            If you’re not actively fighting against right-wing nationalism, then you’re complicit

            Biden is complicit.

            • @[email protected]
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              03 months ago

              “I know you are but what am I”

              You having an off day? This is not up to your regular level of trolling.

        • @[email protected]
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          83 months ago

          Silence is complicity.

          If you won’t stand up and fight for the LGBTQ+ people here, the women and children here, the ethnic and religious minorities here, now, then don’t expect anyone to help you when it’s your ass on the line.

    • @[email protected]
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      193 months ago

      It’s not like in this particular topic there’s much choice. Maybe a two party system isn’t all that great?

      • @[email protected]
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        23 months ago

        Okay yes true, then do the work then get us a non First Past The Post voting system that allows for more parties. Complaining at the last minute that you don’t like the choices given, when you haven’t put work into changing why those are the choices, means you’re just shouting into the wind.

    • @[email protected]
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      163 months ago

      It is fucking insane, but it’s nonsense to punish him by handing power the guy that wants to genocide harder.

      • @[email protected]
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        -43 months ago

        It’s not nonsense to check out mentally and become apathetic. It’s a very rational response to inescapable traumatic conditions.

      • @[email protected]
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        -53 months ago

        Well if you don’t want that to happen start pushing democrats to stop supporting genocide. At this point it’s on the people willing to support lesser of two evils genocide far more than it is on the people who refuse to vote for genocide. If you don’t threaten to withhold your vote from people who are committing genocide then why the fuck would they stop

        • @[email protected]
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          53 months ago

          If you don’t threaten to withhold your vote from people who are committing genocide then why the fuck would they stop

          TIL I’m in Israel and not the US.

  • @[email protected]OP
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    393 months ago

    Moore predicted the next presidential election will mirror Trump’s victory over Hillary Clinton in 2016 if Biden does not demand a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war. The filmmaker argued that Biden will end up losing battleground states like Michigan by a slim margin because voters upset with his support of Israel will stay home.

    “Be a politician for once. What does a politician want most? To get reelected,” he said. “Why are you guaranteeing possibly losing the election and Trump being back in the White House? What is fricking wrong with you?”

    • @[email protected]
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      653 months ago

      That’s the worst part.

      Biden wants us to believe the worst thing that can happen to America is trump in office.

      And he’s right.

      But instead of logically realizing that means he should be doing what voters want, he thinks that should mean he can do anything he wants, and if we don’t like it that’s not his fault.

      It’s exactly the same as Hillary in 2016.

      Neoliberals don’t want Republicans to be less extreme, they want Republicans to be so terrible that it makes the neoliberal standing next to them feel like a good option. Even if that means sometimes people like trump becomes president.

      • @djsoren19
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        293 months ago

        So start sharpening the knives! Support grassroots leftist groups in your area. Support your local union, if you’re a member, and maybe talk with them about what politicians they want to endorse.

        The Democrats will only move further and further right, until they are indistinguishable from moderate Republicans, but right now every year a Democrat is in power is time for leftists to organise with the intent of breaking off. I’ve been getting a lot of hope from the pro-Palestinian protests I’ve been going to, I think they can be a great place to network with leftist groups if you’re looking.

        • @[email protected]
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          153 months ago

          The Democrats will only move further and further right, until they are indistinguishable from moderate Republicans

          First of all, wrong verb tense, and second, “until” implies they stopped when they reached that point.

          The Democratic Party has been right of Eisenhower for a while now.

      • gregorum
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        183 months ago

        i’ve said this before, and i’ll say this again: when the Dems lose, don’t blame the Trump voters or the tiny amount of 3rd-party voters. They should blame themselves for not getting the gigantic bloc of non-voters to vote blue because they ran a candidate that people hated.

        • Patapon Enjoyer
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          3 months ago

          I don’t wanna brag but I can blame Dems and Trump voters at the same time. I’m built different.

          Heck, in 2016 I even blamed the media obsession with Trump making him popular, I’ll blame anything.

          • @[email protected]
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            53 months ago

            Spitting facts. Dems have and will always have blood on their hands for making Trump what he is. Fucking Hilary’s campaign propped him up so that they could push the right to extremes and paint them an easy target.

            Guess what happens when you play with fire?

          • @[email protected]OP
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            43 months ago

            Don’t forget to also blame Hillary for pushing Trump because she thought he would be the easiest to beat.

      • @[email protected]
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        23 months ago

        But instead of logically realizing that means he should be doing what voters want

        The problem is that what you think voters want is different than what voters actually want.

        There’s a LOT of pro-Israel Democrat voters out there. You just don’t associate with them.

        You think Biden is supporting Israel for the funzies? Because he just loves genocide? Grow up. Biden has a lot of voters who want him to support Israel.

      • @[email protected]
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        -103 months ago

        If Trump gets in I hope he at least starts throwing Biden and the other old fucking morons in prison. Then they can take a look at what they’ve done and realize that this shit is their fucking fault for not helping a genocide take place.

  • @[email protected]
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    203 months ago

    He knows the pain of loosing a child, why is he supporting something that is causing 10s of thousands of parents to loose their children?

  • @[email protected]
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    83 months ago

    It’s a really bad analogy. The only similarity would be losing to Trump. So just say that.

    Hillary’s problem was with late deciders because of a scandal, Moore is saying Biden’s problem would be with people deciding based on official actions and policy choices. They’re closer to opposites than analogous.

  • @[email protected]
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    73 months ago

    I didn’t realize that Michael Moore was still alive. I’m sitting here shocked to learn that he’s still kicking.

  • @[email protected]
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    -33 months ago

    At this point I seriously suspect that Biden is merely stonewalling until he can hand this mess over to Trump.