• @GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org
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    13811 months ago

    Yes, this is still necessary.

    It wouldn’t make sense to put the onus to block every bad instance onto every single user.

    Consider the extreme use case, which is obviously CSAM. I rely on my instance admins to handle that for me. If I had to painstakingly block every instance that has poor moderation (or worse), I’d simply stop using Lemmy. The “all” feed would be utterly unusable.

    Also, admins need control over what’s in their own database, potentially for legal reasons.

    • @humorlessrepost@lemmy.world
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      2011 months ago

      This is where I’m currently at with “not technically nsfw but I don’t want people thinking I’m like that” trying to block anime communities centered around not-technically-nude pictures.

      • Scrubbles
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        1011 months ago

        Yeah as an instance admin sorry not sorry I defederated most anime things like that. You want that? You host it. I don’t need the feds knocking down my door.

        • @Fal
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          711 months ago

          Lol wtf? The feds are going to knock down your door because of anime pics of people that aren’t even nude?

          • Carighan Maconar
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            311 months ago

            The feds will knock down your door because a kid you headshotted in CoD called them. Anime is one of the more understandable reasons if we’re being honest.

        • @lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org
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          011 months ago

          Honestly if the feds are going to even take the effort to move personnel to your house and knock your door, when it’s quite unlikely the server is hosted physically at your house in the first place, you could take the opportunity to offer them cheap consulting on technology, international cultures (anime and stuff) and federation.

          Heck, you can aim at their ego. “I tricked you, right guys? That means I’m pretty good.”

    • @intensely_human@lemm.ee
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      111 months ago

      An onus is a responsibility. A responsibility is power. It’s a simple fact that someone who chooses their own content source blocklists has more personal power than a person for whom someone else makes the selection.

      And, it takes time and mental energy which we certainly don’t have to spare. It’s a very heavy onus that way

  • katy ✨
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    11 months ago

    edge lords, tankies, paedophiles, and alt-righters should always be defederated from

    • @Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      defedding pedos make sense but defedding the others you mentioned are a very slippery slope into making an echo chamber

      • Carighan Maconar
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        1111 months ago

        Sorry, you keep saying “echo chamber” when you wanted to type “usable instance”. Something seems broken with your autocorrect.

          • @Eldritch@lemmy.world
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            711 months ago

            Real life is the biggest echo chamber you’ll ever find. Online is one of the most diverse spaces you’ll find. That said there’s nothing to be gained by humoring fascists, ML, or groups only interested in engaging in bad faith. I say this as someone who trends social libertarian and is always up for some Marxism.

            • @Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
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              111 months ago

              I do think real life can be an echo chamber, but if you have a diverse range of people you interact with, it can be not an echo chamber at all. Having multiple friend groups, attending social events, etc can make real life more diverse.

              (Ofc there’s things like living in a first world country making an echo chamber of people that don’t care about third world issues, but that’s beside the point)

              Online is also the same in my opinion.

              • @Eldritch@lemmy.world
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                411 months ago

                Yes. But people not acting in good faith don’t deserve my attention or time. No differing or opposing viewpoints are lost.

                You act like not giving them attention is as bad as when they sent the people they disagreed with to the gas chamber or gulags by the millions.

          • @DrQuint@lemmy.world
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            211 months ago

            Then yes, we want an echo chamber. Happy? You’re still defending scum, no matter the semantics.

            • @Kbobabob@lemmy.world
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              211 months ago

              No one ever gets radicalized in these cases, hearing the same things from everyone they interact with thinking that everyone or at least most think the same way they do and they need to fix the situation while being encouraged to do so. Never happens.

              • @DrQuint@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                Step 1: Don’t engage them, no room for their rhetoric.

                You are to fuck off, and take your crypto and your blue line flags with you on the way out.

                • @Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
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                  211 months ago

                  Do you understand my argument?

                  All I’m saying is that defedding from people like “tankies, alt-righters, edge lords” are fine, but because it’s easy to miscategorise people into those categories (intentional or not) you could end up defederating from anyone you don’t agree with, ending up in an echo chamber.

                • @Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
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                  111 months ago

                  sure, you can block me if you don’t agree with my opinions.

                  that would be kinda making an echo chamber for yourself though, so I wouldn’t recommend that.

  • Rikudou_Sage
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    7311 months ago

    Yes. As an admin of an instance who really doesn’t want child porn on my server, I’m gonna defederate the shit out of any instance that doesn’t take care of such content in a reasonable time. And in my opinion, loli is child porn, so defederating there as well.

    Other than that, anything that’s illegal in my jurisdiction.

    And the last category, spam and bigotry. Basically anything that puts too much work on my plate - if I get dozens of reports a day for users of a single instance (and I agree with the reports), I’ll defederate, because no one’s paying for my time.

    So these are some valid reasons for me to defederate. There are probably more.

  • kbal
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    3411 months ago

    Instance admins should defederate as often as they feel is necessary, and users should learn to avoid relying on instances that do it too much.

  • oleorun
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    3011 months ago

    This is the best part about Lemmy: if you disagree with the way an instance is run, you can setup your own and do what you want to do.

    Personally I leave it up to people to block instances. The only instances I’ve had to block are the ones that post illegal content like CSAM.

    • @Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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      211 months ago

      And users don’t even necessarily need to set up their own instance. There will be defed-heavy and defed-light instances users can just choose from based on personal preference. The instance mostly just matters for who federates and internal moderation policy (which is aligned), so it’s not like anyone will be forced one way or another.

    • xigoi
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      -811 months ago

      Just run your own server! It’s so easy! And if you’re too poor to afford your own server, just get money!

      • @ttmrichter@lemmy.world
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        311 months ago

        I’m sorry. Does actually having to put a bit of skin in the game offend you? You’d rather the people spending the actual money and doing the actual work just bow to your whims?

        Compassionate fucking BUDDHA are the anti-defederation crowd a bunch of entitled, whiny asses!

        • P03 Locke
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          311 months ago

          I think that was sarcasm.

          People often don’t care to understand how much work it is to run a Lemmy instance. And the cost. I have my own website and the knowledge/money to start an instance, but I’m certainly not going to actually do that and monopolize the rest of my free time.

          • Nix
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            011 months ago

            Its actually not that much work or money. I’m pretty bad when it comes to servers but i run my instance with about 50 users and pay $15 a month because i went with a more expensive host. A single user instance could spend less than $8 a month and setup isn’t hard

        • xigoi
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          -511 months ago

          I thought the entire point of federated networks is that they give power to users, not to random rich people. If you want someone with a lot of money to decide what content you can see, you can go back to Twitter and Reddit.

            • xigoi
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              -511 months ago

              Ah, so it’s exactly like commercial networks then, where the true users are not those who create content, but those who want to police what other people can talk about.

                • xigoi
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                  011 months ago

                  The part where you need to be rich enough to run a server.

              • Carighan Maconar
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                111 months ago

                No not at all.

                The big difference is that with federated stuff like Lemmy you can own the actual content you create. By running your own instance, of course. Become a user. Own the data.

  • @notannpc@lemmy.world
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    2811 months ago

    To combat spam and blatant fuckery, absolutely. Openly hateful places have no business on the general internet.

    But anything else is better left to user discretion IMO.

    • sj_zero
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      011 months ago

      By that standard it seems to me like most of the internet should be shut down, particularly establishment outlets that are more than happy to tell you who to hate.

  • Carighan Maconar
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    2411 months ago

    Hey if you’re allowed to block instances you want to block, so are instance owners. After all, it’s their instance.

  • Kayn
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    2311 months ago

    Instance owners are responsible for the content that is mirrored on their instance through federation, so they definitely should.

      • @Hazzard@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        Legally responsible, for one.

        I.E. If a federated instance hosted pedophilia, that content would be copied to, and served by, your instance’s infrastructure, which is obviously legally problematic.

  • BarqsHasBite
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    11 months ago

    Yes, users shouldn’t have to jump through a million hoops to get a decent feed.

  • Margot Robbie
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    1711 months ago

    Every instance should be able to federate and defederate from any other instance for any, all, or no reason.

  • Ada
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    1711 months ago

    Yes.

    What you’re describing is basically the way Twitter works, and there’s a reason vulnerable folk have migrated away from it in large numbers

      • Ada
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        1311 months ago

        Yes, and thus you have one giant mega community in which every bigot can access anyone and everyone else. Which is what a Fediverse without instance blocks would be like

        • xigoi
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          211 months ago

          The OP is not against instance blocks.

          • Ada
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            11 months ago

            Their question was literally “do we still need instance blocks”

            • xigoi
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              111 months ago

              What? The question was literally “Should instances defederate with other instances anymore if we can filter instances out on our end?”.

              • Ada
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                011 months ago

                Defederating = instance block

                • xigoi
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                  111 months ago

                  Defederation is done by the instance administrator and affects all users. Instance blocking is done by the user and affects only them.

  • smoothbrain coldtakes
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    1511 months ago

    The way federation works is that everything is replicated across all federated servers. If an admin team does not want to have to moderate specific kinds of content or users who are deemed detrimental (but not necessarily illegal) they have the ability and right to defederate.

    Also, I’ve blocked servers but it doesn’t block users. Defederation does though.

  • @reddwarf@feddit.nl
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    1111 months ago

    Just give me the tools, as a user, to block instances. Not just the way it is done recently but truly block an instance and all it’s posts and users. I want to be able to black hole an entire instance and all things related to it.