Native English speakers… I hear the order of adjectives is important, and getting this wrong is jarring to read.
I’m making a pitch to upper management about building a “modular and versatile thingamawidget”. Or is it “versatile and modular thingamawidget”?
If it doesn’t matter, I think I’ll go for the latter, as it abbreviates to something easily pronouncable without sounding like a paramilitary group or a ride sharing business.
Although there is a common adjective order, it’s not always clear which category a word belongs in. People insisting that the words “modular” and “versatile” fit into whatever category they chose are presenting a lot more certainty than is warranted. I am a native speaker, and either order sounds fine in this case.
I would say modular and versatile. Other one sounds off, but not in a critical way.
To my ears, when I say them out loud, I have to pause after versatile, but not after modular. This makes versatile and modular flow worse than modular and versatile does.
This also went away after a few repetitions, so it likely doesn’t matter all that much.
The latter is correct.
English has a fixed adjective order:
Determiner
Quantity
Opinion
Size
Age
Shape
Color
Origin/Material
Qualifier
“Versatile” is an opinion and “modular” is a qualifier.
“The single, versatile, large, new, round, blue, local, modular thingamawidget.”
I agree that “versatile, modular” is the right order. But is that order also preferred if the conjunction “and” is used to separate the adjectives? I thought the rule was particular to the peculiar way we can string together adjectives with no conjunction.
“Modular, versatile” sounds wrong, but “modular and versatile” less so.
I’m not sure on the rules/general use but my ear agrees with this. As soon as you put an “and” between them nearly any order seems totally normal.
"I present to you the next generation of thingamawidgets. The future of thingamawidging: The SVeLNeRBLoMTtm "
I can sort out the blue aspect through cheap spray paint, but I need to do some research on making a 19" rack round…
Neither sounds “wrong” to my ear, but if I had to pick one, hmmmm…I think modular things are inherently versatile, but versatile things aren’t inherently modular, so I would go with “versatile and modular” so it gets more specific from first word to second word.
Or consider not using both those words.
Edit: the order of adjectives usually matters when they are different types of adjectives, like “five big brown bears”. You have a number, a size, and a color. That one sounds wrong if you get them out of order. But modular and versatile are the same kind of adjective, so I don’t think there’s really a wrong choice here.
I tend to agree with you. Plus, with this particular thing, it’s possible to build it to be modular and not versatile, or the other way around. Or neither, which we’re using now.
Putting the shortest word first sounds better.
‘Men and women’ is the usual order, as is ‘ladies and gentlemen.’
I’d go with modular first. imho
To my ear, modular and versatile are so similar that I wouldn’t connect them with “and”. It’s almost redundant, like “grey and colorless”.
Also, “versatile” without any more context is devoid of meaning.Hard to say without more info, but my instinct is, it would sound nicer to pitch a “modular thingamawidget” and explain its versatility in another sentence or a subordinate clause.
There’s a lot of context that I cannot share without making it a two week course in what I do for a living, but to put it simply, both versatility and modularity are descriptors that make sense together for the intended audience, as the system can be one without the other. Plus versatile refers to the software, and modular refers to the hardware.
In that case, I think the whole question is moot. The umbrella term of thingamawidget is not both modular and versatile, but its constituent parts are individually. “The thingamawidget with versatile software and modular hardware is…” would then be the more accurate description.
Otherwise it’s like describing a brownie as wet and bitter because the egg is wet and the raw cocoa is bitter.
adjective order (first to last):
- Quantity
- Opinion
- Size
- Age
- Shape
- Color
- Origin/Material
- Qualifier
‘versatile’ is an opinion. it would go before ‘modular’
Why do you consider “versatile” an opinion? It’s a genuine question, I’m a native speaker and wouldn’t have thought that, but I’m also unfamiliar with how this is typically taught.
Heh, that made me realize that the trademark of the system we’re currently using, which is abbreviated into four letters, should have the first three in the opposite order.
What system? Lemmy? ActivityPub? Neither are 4 letter acronyms
Neither. By “we” I mean my colleagues and I at work. It’s a proprietary thing we use. I cannot share the name as it’s too easily googleable and doxxable, as it’s a highly niche system.
In this case the only rule I believe there is, is the prose. What sounds better when read out loud?
Literally looking at Elements of Style RN now to see if maybe I just don’t remember but it doesn’t have a chapter on the use of adjectives. 🤷🏻♂️
