I was reading a comment thread recently.

One commenter stated that they are aware of the people who are “dumber” than them, and if they are not aware the person they are talking to is either similar in intelligence or smarter than they are.

So my question is, do you have this awareness?

Are you conscious of your relative standing in the intelligence hierarchy around you?

And a side point, can you tell a smart person is acting dumb to fit in with those around them?

  • @[email protected]
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    13 days ago

    Before we go any further into the vector idea, I have to return to the thought of “health”. I mentioned that a supremely intelligent person, lets say a genius of 250 IQ (yeah I know, we’ll get to that term in a moment but ignoring it for now…:-), commits suicide, after first lets say his partner leaving him b/c he ignored them and focused too much on work - i.e., low EI. But importantly that’s only one small component: what if he had not only perfect IQ, but also perfect EI as well, yet still committed suicide… and yet that only b/c he had a terminal illness that would have killed him painfully within weeks? Or perhaps he has perfect health, in that moment, yet his oxygen supply is running out, and will be dead in mere minutes, where his IQ, EI, or physical health cannot save him? Now we begin to start recapitulating Maslov’s hierarchy of needs, where some things - like intellectual curiosity - only become important after our other, more basal needs are met, air being one of the prime ones, but also food, water, shelter, security, and the like.

    And then sex is an oddity, arguably more primal than most others, since someone will give up access to most of those - if not air then food, water, shelter, security etc., in order to have even a chance at a sexual encounter. Which we know is important, nay crucial, to the survival of the species, even if fairly low on the scale of importance to an individual’s survival - i.e. someone can die at 100+ years of age as a complete virgin, so it is not necessary at all, at least for the individual. But that does show the interconnectedness of concepts that we claim to be “more foundational” (like food), yet that sometimes shift positions and at least temporarily become dispensable in exchange for something that is, as I just mentioned, not important at all.

    So if IQ is less foundational than EI, and both are less foundational than health, then that means… what? I don’t even know, but perhaps they don’t need to be on the same dimensional plane at all, maybe it means that we really can talk about “intelligence” separately from other matters, such as emotional acuity? But while that may sound nice in theory, I really don’t think that works out in practice, b/c sometimes the absolute smartest people can do just the absolute DUMBEST things!:-P And it’s b/c they really, truly are less “intelligent”, in that particular area, e.g. perhaps they can solve mathematical equations that nobody has figured out for hundreds of years, but for the life of them they cannot remember their wife’s anniversary date and after missing it the 5th time in a row, is now reading divorce papers handed to them.

    So whether it’s a vector, or two vectors, or no vectors, any particular theory about this aspect of humanity could be challenged in terms of its specifics, and be either partially or even wholly wrong, but the main TLDR is this: intelligence is COMPLEX, and therefore as you brought up, not so readily judged.

    Knowledge I would argue is not even in the same category as Intelligence at all - knowledge can be written in a book, or carved into stone, so mere “knowledge” is a collection of messages, which requires zero intelligence at all, especially if a computer that is dumb as a rock can handle it.

    But I know what you meant: “Intelligence is not the same as IQ” - the latter is a specific attempt to measure the former, and is hella wrong, in all manner of ways. I recall a similar discussion about the SAT involving essays written up describing yacht trips - a poor person, or perhaps even a wealthy(-ish) one living in the midwestern states, VERY far away from any kind of ocean, may have never been yachting in their entire life, or even know of someone else doing so either. It is an “unfair” (as in: unequally biased) type of question that favors elitism at the expense of others who may be just as smart, yet not know those particular cultural matters quite as well (and therefore btw those kinds of questions were removed, though I am happy to see the trend continuing - although I would hope that everyone would know “ruby”, e.g. in one of the earliest and most revered films of all time Wizard of Oz they talk about “ruby red slippers”… although then again, how many people know of e.g. Charlie Chaplan, so I can kinda see from several POVs there; but I did want to point out that you don’t need to have SEEN a ruby, as in irl, b/c movies, TV, and the internet do exist!).

    So… Intelligence is all things to all people, yet not equally so, and in particular there is a stigma among people who lack it who feel poorly about that, perhaps having been chided in the past for something related. But high-IQ (or EI) people are no “better” than those of low status… (imho at least) and yet they are more “powerful”, in that they can accomplish more things. As too can someone with greater musculature, and yet that is less rare, plus less valuable for other reasons too in this era of machines.

    Though imagine this: 1000 years from now, when people have literal computer chips placed into their heads (probably biotech at that point rather than plastic+metal, or even spiritual-tech if we find a way to tap into something outside of our physical realm, like if this is The Matrix and we can even temporarily tap into sudo commands from “above” the normal rules:-), at that point will “intelligence” be of any value whatsoever? And yet even in that distant future, “character” still seems like it will be of great value b/c it is far more foundational than anything else (in my hypothetical imaginings, plus many sci-fi books, e.g. Greg Bear’s “Moving Mars” explores this).

    We start to see glimmerings of this even now: e.g. what use is “memory” when we have pocket internet + calendar + insta-communication? In ye olden days, winning arguments could be done by deploying a fact that the other side did not know yet. Not so today, as the recent debate with Trump v. Kamala Harris showed… or as the debate with Nixon v. JFK identically showed >60 years ago. One of them says something that rattles the other, who then “wins”, based almost totally on EI considerations and almost none at all of IQ ones. IQ has no “power” to solve things in that arena… though with computer assistance, high-EI people can do things that even the highest-IQ ones of the past would never have been able to (or perhaps requiring months, decades, or would have required millennia under some theoretical condition that they could survive and remain focused on the issue all that time).

    So anyway… yeah, it’s complicated. :-)

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    • @[email protected]OP
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      23 days ago

      The needs thing is interesting. But you can’t really have a conversation about the higher needs without the lower needs being satisfied first.

      • @[email protected]
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        13 days ago

        Right… so is that “all” that EI is, another level below IQ, like physical safety is below either of those, or is it perhaps another half of the same rung on the ladder?

        I don’t know, maybe nobody does, maybe someone does and I just haven’t heard it from them:-).

        They are so extremely similar though - both involve a type of processing, both involve puzzle solving, and memory, and other shared components. It’s just that one pertains to matters of the heart, and the other the brain.

        And to my knowledge there isn’t anything else like it to be a third, but neither can we seem to isolate a discussion about just one, without the other getting pulled in as well. Like to learn math (IQ), patience (EI) is required, while to avoid mistakes (EI), we have to first understand (IQ) what might happen. The dichotomy is everywhere we look, at least among matters pertaining to humanity.