For like 80 years, the west prepared for war with Russia. Russia played the long, quiet game and just parasitized our politics, and our economies. They’re winning without ever firing a shot. It’s impressive, albeit infuriating.
Russia has had dramatic political influence in this country for a very long time now. If you’re not worried about that as well, then you’re extremely naive, my guy.
Russia has had dramatic political influence in this country for a very long time now
Sure, but NOWHERE near as much or as bad as under-regulated capitalism, which has taken over the entire government and caused the needless deaths of tens if not hundreds of millions in the US alone, billions worldwide.
And that’s not even counting the even greater numbers that it has left alive but perpetually struggling and suffering!
You’re absolutely crazy if you honestly believe that. First of all, talking of “Russia” as a constant for the past 80 years when it’s gone from part of the USSR, to liberal-minded capitalist country with talks of joining the EU, to fascist dictatorship just in the last 35 years. There’s absolutely no “long term plan to destabilize Europe” in Russia for the past 80 years, and you’re being conspiracist and throwing history out the window.
Secondly, as sadly shown in the early 20th century, Europe is more than capable of creating its own fascist movements. You say Russia has been conspiring to push fascism in Europe, but I’m Spanish and the USSR was the only country which helped the Republican struggle against fascism in the Spanish civil war, and after the fascists won in Spain (with the help of the Nazis and the italian fascists while the rest of Europe did nothing) and WW2 ended, fascist Spain was perfectly joined into the international community just a few decades afterwards.
The current far-right movements in Europe are learning their lessons from Trump and Bolsonaro, and have received most of their help and funding from within Europe and from the US rather than from Russia. They’re the consequence of one and a half decades of austerity policy, where the socialdemocrats have been complicit in austerity as much as the conservative parties have been. And after corruption schemes being discovered in most christian-conservative parties in Europe, a segment of right wing that used to vote for them but lost their trust, now votes for other right wing parties, including far right. Fascism isn’t a tool from Russia to destroy Europe, it’s Europe destroying itself from within to further the interests of the wealthy elites.
Tbf, russia is currently financing fascist and right-wing populist movements and parties all over Europe, e.g the AfD in Germany or the FPÖ in Austria.
That’s right, there were no flaws in the political system invented 250 years ago and only outside actors in the last 20 years led to a conservative party vs a fascist party.
At no point was I suggesting that we haven’t caused many of our own problems. I’m simply saying that Russia is exploiting those problems for their own benefit.
That’s kind of my point. The US is the problem with our political system. Russia is a factor, but they exacerbated division that was already present. It’s actually ridiculous to try and frame it as a problem that wouldn’t have appeared if Russia stayed out of our business.
Russia is neither winning nor is their disinformation campaigns that successful. This is because despite their best efforts, when they needed their propaganda to work the most, it backfired and the west is more united than ever. Not only that but the country is basically wrecked due to the invasion of Ukraine
Those parties aren’t gaining ground because of Russia. Russia is definitely an influence, but they’re not the reason these parties are winning. They’re gaining ground because the establishment parties are failing people and these parties are the only alternative they have. We’ve seen such parties win in Italy, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, etc but nothing really changed foreign policy wise.
The swing right is a rejection of globalism by the people more than Russia being some amazing propaganda source. Blaming Russia absolves the globalists from responsibility though.
For like 80 years, the west prepared for war with Russia. Russia played the long, quiet game and just parasitized our politics, and our economies. They’re winning without ever firing a shot. It’s impressive, albeit infuriating.
What? Modern Russia exists for 33 years. 80 years ago certain parlamentary union was so upset at nazis, that it destroyed them.
Also 80 years ago for that parlamentary union the lefter politician was - the better. For Putin it’s opposite.
Russia hasn’t done nearly as much damage as the capitalist class in America has.
Yet
Nah. Absolutely overhyped.
Europe shrugged at the Nazis just like that
My dude I’m far more worried about America’s actual Nazis. Russia is just a distraction.
Russia has had dramatic political influence in this country for a very long time now. If you’re not worried about that as well, then you’re extremely naive, my guy.
Yeah, they’ve been stirring up the local Fascists who are a much bigger problem.
Sure, but NOWHERE near as much or as bad as under-regulated capitalism, which has taken over the entire government and caused the needless deaths of tens if not hundreds of millions in the US alone, billions worldwide.
And that’s not even counting the even greater numbers that it has left alive but perpetually struggling and suffering!
Do we really need to debate which country’s Nazis are the worst?
Putinism vs bipartisan right debate on lemmy?
You give Russia too much credit.
Europe and USA put themselves on this situation all by their own stupidity.
Also greed
You’re absolutely crazy if you honestly believe that. First of all, talking of “Russia” as a constant for the past 80 years when it’s gone from part of the USSR, to liberal-minded capitalist country with talks of joining the EU, to fascist dictatorship just in the last 35 years. There’s absolutely no “long term plan to destabilize Europe” in Russia for the past 80 years, and you’re being conspiracist and throwing history out the window.
Secondly, as sadly shown in the early 20th century, Europe is more than capable of creating its own fascist movements. You say Russia has been conspiring to push fascism in Europe, but I’m Spanish and the USSR was the only country which helped the Republican struggle against fascism in the Spanish civil war, and after the fascists won in Spain (with the help of the Nazis and the italian fascists while the rest of Europe did nothing) and WW2 ended, fascist Spain was perfectly joined into the international community just a few decades afterwards.
The current far-right movements in Europe are learning their lessons from Trump and Bolsonaro, and have received most of their help and funding from within Europe and from the US rather than from Russia. They’re the consequence of one and a half decades of austerity policy, where the socialdemocrats have been complicit in austerity as much as the conservative parties have been. And after corruption schemes being discovered in most christian-conservative parties in Europe, a segment of right wing that used to vote for them but lost their trust, now votes for other right wing parties, including far right. Fascism isn’t a tool from Russia to destroy Europe, it’s Europe destroying itself from within to further the interests of the wealthy elites.
Tbf, russia is currently financing fascist and right-wing populist movements and parties all over Europe, e.g the AfD in Germany or the FPÖ in Austria.
United Russia(Putin), not Russia.
That’s right, there were no flaws in the political system invented 250 years ago and only outside actors in the last 20 years led to a conservative party vs a fascist party.
At no point was I suggesting that we haven’t caused many of our own problems. I’m simply saying that Russia is exploiting those problems for their own benefit.
That’s kind of my point. The US is the problem with our political system. Russia is a factor, but they exacerbated division that was already present. It’s actually ridiculous to try and frame it as a problem that wouldn’t have appeared if Russia stayed out of our business.
I think we’re (trying) to say the same thing.
If that’s the case, then my bad. I may have read into your comment too much.
Russia is neither winning nor is their disinformation campaigns that successful. This is because despite their best efforts, when they needed their propaganda to work the most, it backfired and the west is more united than ever. Not only that but the country is basically wrecked due to the invasion of Ukraine
They put one of their assets in the White House, and you think they’re failing? They might do it a second time for fucks sake!
If he is Russian asset, can I sell his ass?
He is corporate asset. A tool to strengthen neofeudalism.
And a documented Russian puppet.
A Putin’s puppet. Yes.
Russia isn’t exactly benefiting from its investments is the point I’m making
France on the verge of an extreme right takeover
Germanys AfD party making significant gains
Substantial foreign influence in the legislative and executive branches of US Politics
By all means, please continue to ignore the signs. “It can’t happen here”, right?
Those parties aren’t gaining ground because of Russia. Russia is definitely an influence, but they’re not the reason these parties are winning. They’re gaining ground because the establishment parties are failing people and these parties are the only alternative they have. We’ve seen such parties win in Italy, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, etc but nothing really changed foreign policy wise.
So just “no big deal”. Got it.
In terms of Russian interests? Pretty much
You are so full of shit dude. Or completely blind. Maybe both.
Holy fuckin jingoism
So you believe they’ve had zero effect on current events? I don’t advocate for the belief of American or western superiority.
Criticizing a specific country isn’t jingoism. JFC learn what words mean.
Lol
The swing right is a rejection of globalism by the people more than Russia being some amazing propaganda source. Blaming Russia absolves the globalists from responsibility though.
(((Globalism))), right?