The Uncommitted Movement’s goal to get high uncommitted voter turnout in the primary so that Joe Biden changes his outdated views on Palestine and Israel is great.
However if people vote uncommitted in the primaries because they are convinced Biden is Genocide Joe then they aren’t going to want to vote for Biden in the general election.
Anyone who thinks someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary but not realize that the fascist republican party is significantly worse than Biden for the general election is arguing in bad faith.
someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary
Telling people Biden is Genocide Joe isn’t a nuanced position. People who think Joe Biden equals genocide aren’t voting for him now and aren’t voting for him later. An argument that ignores the inherent cognitive dissidence it would take for someone, who believes Joe Biden is directly the cause of Israel’s genocide of Palestinians, to vote for Joe Biden is disingenuous.
Truth is, I’m likely going to end up voting for Biden in the fall, because for all his faults, he is infinitely better than Trump. But I want him to fucking sweat in the meantime. Because if he sweats, if he realizes he can’t simply take the votes from the left for granted even as he gives nothing to us, maybe he’ll fucking start giving something to us.
I have no illusions that he’ll do the right thing out of the goodness of his heart, but perhaps he’ll do the right thing out of fear of losing.
God I wish there was room for an actual threat from the left instead of “well I guess we’ll make everyone who isn’t wearing a maga hat worry about whether they’ll be up against a wall by 2028”
I think the people in this thread aren’t Russian bots. That’s why I think it’s worth arguing with them. If we want Biden to win in November, then calling him Genocide Joe isn’t helping.
Actual damaging propaganda will occur on the mainstream sites, especially Twitter, via the RUSKIES to drive support from Biden in the general. We must all do our part to prevent votes for fascists (Trump, any republican at all at this point)
This is me-me is just commentary on a safe protest vote with a vilifying tagline to garner attention. But the protest vote is to end the US-funded genocide of the Palestinian people by the country of Israel, which is a very worthy goal.
I love tokenboomer! he has the best takes, and … yea the comment sections are usually owning the libs, but that doesn’t make them paid propagandists or sock puppets.
frankly, you’re spreading unevidenced (and unprovable according to you) conspiracy theories.
It’s not a nuanced position, there is genocide of the Palestinian people occurring in Gaza literally right now. They’re actually dying and the US props up the country doing it, it’s clear Biden could and can do much more to stop the genocide. So some people call him “Genocide Joe”, people are being murdered, I assume they think something so striking is fitting. Whole families have been wiped off the face of the earth, some people get radicalized by that I am sure.
Now people who do think he is “Genocide Joe” will not vote for the other guy https://web.archive.org/web/20240306112504/https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905 . Argument is bunk, hell the fascist guy said he’d support completing the genocide completely while Biden holds a line of “secretly I want it to stop” which is “vaguely” better. And if they don’t vote for either because of support for the genocide on both sides, they are not people who care about the country and definitely don’t have well constructed opinions on anything else. (e.g., couldn’t rely on them for a Dem vote if no genocide occurring)
So this argument is just wrong. The crap some Dems wish for, that people shouldn’t protest Biden’s policies at all or else all will fall is inherently flawed - the US democracy is built on free speech and advocating for change. And when a people are being genocided by a US proxy, many think it is worth it to rock the boat in a safe way.
So this argument is just wrong. The crap some Dems wish for, that people shouldn’t protest Biden’s policies at all or else all will fall is inherently flawed - the US democracy is built on free speech and advocating for change. And when a people are being genocided by a US proxy, many think it is worth it to rock the boat in a safe way.
I fundamentally agree that we should rock the boat and get Biden to change his policies. What I don’t agree with is calling Biden, Genocide Joe.
it’s clear Biden could and can do much more to stop the genocide
I also fundamentally agree with this. This is the nuance. Biden has the ability to stop this conflict right now. So we need to pressure him to make that happen. As soon as possible, I should add. I have no doubt Israel’s current fascist government will make good on it’s threats to attack Rafah at the start of Ramadan. That’s the 11th of this month, next Monday afternoon. This is all completely lost with the Genocide Joe nickname.
And if they don’t vote for either because of support for the genocide on both sides, they are not people who care about the country and definitely don’t have well constructed opinions on anything else. (e.g., couldn’t rely on them for a Dem vote if no genocide occurring)
They might reasonably think they shouldn’t vote for either candidate, even when they need to be voting for the lesser evil. It’s considerably harder to make that distinction when one candidate is Donald Trump and the other is Genocide Joe. We should be making the distinction between the candidates as clear as possible. The last thing I want to here on and after election day this November is that people couldn’t tell the difference between Gush and Bore.
I’m not out to plaster Biden as “Genocide Joe” personally. But I would like him to use his influence to at least genuinely try to end the genocide so no one wants to call him that. At least Trump just said he would “finish the problem”, makes it clear he won’t be better for whoever is single-issue on the Palestinian genocide
We do need unity, I will scream for eternity if Biden loses. I want the genocide stopped so that we can concentrate on preventing the fall of the US. People are dying in droves and it needs to stop, so protest. But again, I will implode if Biden loses. So I do understand why so many people are against the protest because it breaks unity, and I understand why people are so worried. We in the US are facing the end with a single election, it’s grim
Biden supports Netanyahu’s genocide. He isn’t the direct cause, but he’s circumvented Congress in order to sell him weapons, and Biden’s administration has gone to bat for Netanyahu multiple times at the UN.
However if people vote uncommitted in the primaries because they are convinced Biden is Genocide Joe then they aren’t going to want to vote for Biden in the general election.
If he changes policy, why not? People can make mistakes. Ideally, I’d rather not support someone who has such a past history and I’d be skeptical that the change is a long-term change rather than just trying to appeal to voters in the short-term, but given the other likely outcome, someone it certainly would be a lot better outcome.
The Uncommitted Movement’s goal to get high uncommitted voter turnout in the primary so that Joe Biden changes his outdated views on Palestine and Israel is great.
However if people vote uncommitted in the primaries because they are convinced Biden is Genocide Joe then they aren’t going to want to vote for Biden in the general election.
Anyone who thinks someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary but not realize that the fascist republican party is significantly worse than Biden for the general election is arguing in bad faith.
Telling people Biden is Genocide Joe isn’t a nuanced position. People who think Joe Biden equals genocide aren’t voting for him now and aren’t voting for him later. An argument that ignores the inherent cognitive dissidence it would take for someone, who believes Joe Biden is directly the cause of Israel’s genocide of Palestinians, to vote for Joe Biden is disingenuous.
Truth is, I’m likely going to end up voting for Biden in the fall, because for all his faults, he is infinitely better than Trump. But I want him to fucking sweat in the meantime. Because if he sweats, if he realizes he can’t simply take the votes from the left for granted even as he gives nothing to us, maybe he’ll fucking start giving something to us.
I have no illusions that he’ll do the right thing out of the goodness of his heart, but perhaps he’ll do the right thing out of fear of losing.
It’s just a shame we can’t make him sweat without making the millions who’ll be totally fucked if he loses sweat too.
God I wish there was room for an actual threat from the left instead of “well I guess we’ll make everyone who isn’t wearing a maga hat worry about whether they’ll be up against a wall by 2028”
I wish the party would quit taking advantage of the looming threat of fascism in order to be unresponsive to the concerns of its base.
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I think the people in this thread aren’t Russian bots. That’s why I think it’s worth arguing with them. If we want Biden to win in November, then calling him Genocide Joe isn’t helping.
I don’t think Lemmy has the cultural cachet to warrant actual Russian Trolls, we get the propaganda second hand from useful idiots.
deleted by creator
what does this mean?
deleted by creator
ah. inboxes. the space really threw me for a loop.
Actual damaging propaganda will occur on the mainstream sites, especially Twitter, via the RUSKIES to drive support from Biden in the general. We must all do our part to prevent votes for fascists (Trump, any republican at all at this point)
This is me-me is just commentary on a safe protest vote with a vilifying tagline to garner attention. But the protest vote is to end the US-funded genocide of the Palestinian people by the country of Israel, which is a very worthy goal.
do you have proof of any of this?
deleted by creator
so you’re making it up
deleted by creator
this is more conspiracy theories.
deleted by creator
I love tokenboomer! he has the best takes, and … yea the comment sections are usually owning the libs, but that doesn’t make them paid propagandists or sock puppets.
frankly, you’re spreading unevidenced (and unprovable according to you) conspiracy theories.
It’s not a nuanced position, there is genocide of the Palestinian people occurring in Gaza literally right now. They’re actually dying and the US props up the country doing it, it’s clear Biden could and can do much more to stop the genocide. So some people call him “Genocide Joe”, people are being murdered, I assume they think something so striking is fitting. Whole families have been wiped off the face of the earth, some people get radicalized by that I am sure.
Now people who do think he is “Genocide Joe” will not vote for the other guy https://web.archive.org/web/20240306112504/https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905 . Argument is bunk, hell the fascist guy said he’d support completing the genocide completely while Biden holds a line of “secretly I want it to stop” which is “vaguely” better. And if they don’t vote for either because of support for the genocide on both sides, they are not people who care about the country and definitely don’t have well constructed opinions on anything else. (e.g., couldn’t rely on them for a Dem vote if no genocide occurring)
So this argument is just wrong. The crap some Dems wish for, that people shouldn’t protest Biden’s policies at all or else all will fall is inherently flawed - the US democracy is built on free speech and advocating for change. And when a people are being genocided by a US proxy, many think it is worth it to rock the boat in a safe way.
I fundamentally agree that we should rock the boat and get Biden to change his policies. What I don’t agree with is calling Biden, Genocide Joe.
I also fundamentally agree with this. This is the nuance. Biden has the ability to stop this conflict right now. So we need to pressure him to make that happen. As soon as possible, I should add. I have no doubt Israel’s current fascist government will make good on it’s threats to attack Rafah at the start of Ramadan. That’s the 11th of this month, next Monday afternoon. This is all completely lost with the Genocide Joe nickname.
They might reasonably think they shouldn’t vote for either candidate, even when they need to be voting for the lesser evil. It’s considerably harder to make that distinction when one candidate is Donald Trump and the other is Genocide Joe. We should be making the distinction between the candidates as clear as possible. The last thing I want to here on and after election day this November is that people couldn’t tell the difference between Gush and Bore.
I’m not out to plaster Biden as “Genocide Joe” personally. But I would like him to use his influence to at least genuinely try to end the genocide so no one wants to call him that. At least Trump just said he would “finish the problem”, makes it clear he won’t be better for whoever is single-issue on the Palestinian genocide
We do need unity, I will scream for eternity if Biden loses. I want the genocide stopped so that we can concentrate on preventing the fall of the US. People are dying in droves and it needs to stop, so protest. But again, I will implode if Biden loses. So I do understand why so many people are against the protest because it breaks unity, and I understand why people are so worried. We in the US are facing the end with a single election, it’s grim
Biden supports Netanyahu’s genocide. He isn’t the direct cause, but he’s circumvented Congress in order to sell him weapons, and Biden’s administration has gone to bat for Netanyahu multiple times at the UN.
Biden should stop supporting genocide.
If he changes policy, why not? People can make mistakes. Ideally, I’d rather not support someone who has such a past history and I’d be skeptical that the change is a long-term change rather than just trying to appeal to voters in the short-term, but given the other likely outcome, someone it certainly would be a lot better outcome.