I definitely understand for flight sims and other aviation games like Ace Combat, but it still seems more intuitive to tilt the stick in the direction you want to look, rather than the opposite direction.
I did the inverted vertical mouse for ages for the same reason, and then one day it just stopped working for me. I think I’d tried other systems and come back to my PC and it suddenly felt wrong. Then I went to normal mouse controls and discovered aiming was more natural and smoother, and I’d probably been sabotaging my aiming by forcing an extra layer of abstraction into it.
It’s weird, I thought of it like leaning back & forward to make it intuitive, and our brains can learn to make just about any adjustment with enough practice.
But IRL if you’re physically pointing at one spot and want to move your point of aim up and to to the right for instance, you move your hand up and to the right, just like the uninverted mouse movement. So you’re spending time IRL learning one movement and time in games learning the opposite movement. I think that’s why inverted was so much worse even though I did it that way from the start.
It’s weird, I thought of it like leaning back & forward to make it intuitive
That’s exactly what it’s live and it’s exactly why it’s intuitive and why when games came out, it was the standard.
But IRL if you’re physically pointing at one spot and want to move your point of aim up and to to the right for instance, you move your hand up and to the right,
But you’re not pointing in the games. You’re moving the view/camera. So to LOOK up and right (as opposed to point), you lean back and roll to the left
But you’re not pointing in the games. You’re moving the view/camera.
You are doing both. They are inherently coupled in this format. But in reality you are not leaning with your hand, you are pointing with your hand, and so the closest 1:1 mapping between movements is uninverted mouse controls.
Also I don’t know what “roll to the left” means here at all. You’d need to draw a diagram or something if you wanted me to understand that part. Your words alone are not enough to convey it.
I don’t know how anyone doesn’t. You’re controlling a camera. It’s how cameras/views have been controlled since graphics were invented. Just like when controlling a camera, to look up and left you would pull down and right.
Not sure if the only cameras you’re thinking of are tv/movie cameras or not, but cameras have been controlled non-invertedly for as long as I can remember.
What? Literally all cameras are controlled invertedly. It’s literally how human biomechanics work too. To look up, you tighten the muscles in the back of your neck, pulling your head back
Try playing a platformer where left moves your character to the right, and right moves left. AND down moves them up and up moves them down. You’d see how that’s unplayable, right?
Of course, how does it possibly make sense to only invert 1 axis? That seems to be the crazy option. Subnautica actually does support only inverting 1 axis (is it Y? Not sure), but not both.
In super mario 64, you click C left to look right because you’re controlling the camera. Just like every other game ever, you’re controlling a camera. Whether you’re looking at the back of the head of your character or not. When you’re using motion controlled aiming, and you have to look up and to the left, what do you do? You pull back on the controller, and rotate the device to the right. It’s crazy to me that you would use different motion when you’re controlling with a joystick versus controller physically
Sounds like it’s just what you grew up on, which as I explained I understand. It felt more natural to me to just use inverted Y axis because of flight sims, but Eventually I just changed because the times changed and standards changed. I didn’t want to be the guy that had to go in and change his settings whenever someone passed me a controller so I just adapted.
Is the next one going to support inverting the X and Y axis on the controller? Or is it going to be entirely unplayable as well?
Kind of a standard option, no doubt. Not sure how that one thing makes it unplayable though.
I personally don’t know anyone, let alone know how anyone plays first-person games with inverted camera controls.
I grew up on joysticks and flight simulators so when I got my hands on an Xbox controller to play Halo it felt more natural to me.
Years later and id switched to normal, and now just use M+K on PC but I understand why someone would want it as an option.
I definitely understand for flight sims and other aviation games like Ace Combat, but it still seems more intuitive to tilt the stick in the direction you want to look, rather than the opposite direction.
This is the way. Any time I’m a pilot, it’s invented. Shooter, normal.
I did the inverted vertical mouse for ages for the same reason, and then one day it just stopped working for me. I think I’d tried other systems and come back to my PC and it suddenly felt wrong. Then I went to normal mouse controls and discovered aiming was more natural and smoother, and I’d probably been sabotaging my aiming by forcing an extra layer of abstraction into it.
That honestly sounds terrible. Part of me is tempted to try playing a game like that just to see how it is.
It’s weird, I thought of it like leaning back & forward to make it intuitive, and our brains can learn to make just about any adjustment with enough practice.
But IRL if you’re physically pointing at one spot and want to move your point of aim up and to to the right for instance, you move your hand up and to the right, just like the uninverted mouse movement. So you’re spending time IRL learning one movement and time in games learning the opposite movement. I think that’s why inverted was so much worse even though I did it that way from the start.
That’s exactly what it’s live and it’s exactly why it’s intuitive and why when games came out, it was the standard.
But you’re not pointing in the games. You’re moving the view/camera. So to LOOK up and right (as opposed to point), you lean back and roll to the left
You are doing both. They are inherently coupled in this format. But in reality you are not leaning with your hand, you are pointing with your hand, and so the closest 1:1 mapping between movements is uninverted mouse controls.
Also I don’t know what “roll to the left” means here at all. You’d need to draw a diagram or something if you wanted me to understand that part. Your words alone are not enough to convey it.
I don’t know how anyone doesn’t. You’re controlling a camera. It’s how cameras/views have been controlled since graphics were invented. Just like when controlling a camera, to look up and left you would pull down and right.
Not sure if the only cameras you’re thinking of are tv/movie cameras or not, but cameras have been controlled non-invertedly for as long as I can remember.
What? Literally all cameras are controlled invertedly. It’s literally how human biomechanics work too. To look up, you tighten the muscles in the back of your neck, pulling your head back
Try playing a platformer where left moves your character to the right, and right moves left. AND down moves them up and up moves them down. You’d see how that’s unplayable, right?
Wait do you actually want your X axis inverted too?
I think you’re just weird, dude. Adjust.
Baldur’s Gate 3, its camera x-axis is inverted by default (Q looks right, E looks left).
Took me a while, but I adjusted.
Of course, how does it possibly make sense to only invert 1 axis? That seems to be the crazy option. Subnautica actually does support only inverting 1 axis (is it Y? Not sure), but not both.
In super mario 64, you click C left to look right because you’re controlling the camera. Just like every other game ever, you’re controlling a camera. Whether you’re looking at the back of the head of your character or not. When you’re using motion controlled aiming, and you have to look up and to the left, what do you do? You pull back on the controller, and rotate the device to the right. It’s crazy to me that you would use different motion when you’re controlling with a joystick versus controller physically
Sounds like it’s just what you grew up on, which as I explained I understand. It felt more natural to me to just use inverted Y axis because of flight sims, but Eventually I just changed because the times changed and standards changed. I didn’t want to be the guy that had to go in and change his settings whenever someone passed me a controller so I just adapted.
Dont know about PC but it has invert on PS4 cause I always play w Y inverted.
If its on PC, I have to assume there is a setting in controller software to allow for it even if the game doesnt.
It only has inverting of 1 axis, not both.
I had to hack it in steam’s controller remapping. But that shouldn’t be necessary, just provide the completely normal option.