I believe the impetus is on the bigot to figure their shit out. It is exhausting arguing with bigots, and it is not people’s job to teach them how not to be a bigot. There is enough information out there now that you should know not to be an intolerant asshole, and if someone chooses instead to be a piece of shit, I’m comfortable with them being ostracized while they sort themselves out. And if they can’t, I’m comfortable with them dying old, alone and confused wondering why nobody visits them.
This sounds like you are promoting an “I’m right, your wrong, and I have no responsibility to correct or educate.” mentality. I’m not sure if trusting the people with opposing views to change on their own is the best approach. I think only deepens divides and entrenches opposition.
People with opposing ideas do exist in a vacuum and will have no problem putting the time in to recruiting others to their way of thinking and promoting similar thinkers to positions of power and influence. Ostracizing those you disagree can just as easily put you in a bubble of isolation, or an echo chamber, as them.
Not to mention that discussing opposing ideas improves understanding both by defending your views and by better understanding the why and origins of their ideas.
There’s nothing wrong with having a “not my responsibility to correct or educate mentality”. These assholes are grown adults. If they haven’t figured things out by now then fuck em.
I think that there is something wrong with the “not my job” approach. I believe in the saying “The only thing evil needs to thrive is for good people to do nothing.”
Assuming that everyone has shared in your socioeconomic upbringing and therefore has the same access to diverse ideas is flawed.
I am personally inspired by Daryl Davis, a black musician who, through simple conversation, has convinced grown adult Ku Klux Klan members to change their ways and renounce the KKK.
I believe that people should work towards the changes they want to see manifest in the world.
I could see trying to change someones mind if you knew them closely, but otherwise its a waste of time. Racism and homophobia have social value because it isolates people they dont like. That is why they are open with their racism. If you try to change their mind, then not only will they not change their mind, not only will they report you to HR for harassing them, and not only will the homophobe running HR think youre a pussy, but a conga line of ugly fucking orcs is going to want to fight you now.
Its interesting you bring up the KKK, because its exactly that sort of prejudice i bring up. If you see one person say something that shocking and nobody is shocked, then they all agree. You can either realize that YOU are the outcast removed boy, or you can quit your job. If you fight it because youre the next Martin Luther King, then youll just get a bunch of harassment before you get tired and quit.
Ive lost so mqny great jobs because i thought id be openly gay in an industrial setting. Its not worth it, and neither is saying anything when cletus and jimbob are laughing about putting all thr trans people in a lathe along with the foreman. (Imagine their fake tits exploding when they hit the ground, and their wieners getting stuck in the bar! Herrherr herr herr. )
Now i keep my mouth shut and respect the fact that rednecks are subhumans that should all just be shot when they think these things. Sin e imtoo much of a pussy to go on a killing spree, i guess i just have to sit and get fucked, like how you should.
Yeah, I think you’ve got me right there. When it comes to being a bigot, I do believe in ostracizing and silencing, in order to put them in a tiny fringe echo chamber. That is much safer than having their ideas out in the open. Racists and bigots should be afraid of stating their opinion, this way their backwards-ass ideas die out with them. Because people aren’t racist from well thought out rational thought. Their racist because of emotions like fear and anger. Something is going wrong in their life and it’s easier to blame a marginalized group than it is it take responsibility. No amount of debate will fix that, and I’m tired of trying. Fuck them.
I also firmly believe in the paradox if tolerance. You cannot tolerate the intolerant, and part of that includes not treating their opinions as valid. Because they are not.
I understand the frustration and seeming futility in trying to change the minds of those with opposing views. It takes constant work and vigilance, but it is important challenge their ideas. Even if you make zero impact on them, you can reach other people. Especially if you have the discussion in a public venue, like an internet firum. Even if you don’t change any minds, if you truly believe in something then you should continue to work towards it.
As for the “they should already know better” argument, I wonder if you are familiar with Daryl Davis, a black musician who would sit with members of the KKK and talk to them about their beliefs. He has well over 20 robes from former klansmen who have given him their robes after he changed their views with those conversations. Turns out that most of them have never had anybody calmly listen to and then dispute the racist claims that they grew up with and have heard repeated their whole lives.
Notice how I am talking about confronting and challenging ideas, not tolerating them.
The only thing evil needs to thrive is for good people to do nothing.
I know of him, and applaud him. If I were a better man, perhaps I could do as he did. However, I no longer have that energy in me to waste. What I can do is shut their voices out of my world and my family’s world. From there, I hope the Daryl Davis’s of the world help them heal. But it will not be me.
I believe the impetus is on the bigot to figure their shit out. It is exhausting arguing with bigots, and it is not people’s job to teach them how not to be a bigot. There is enough information out there now that you should know not to be an intolerant asshole, and if someone chooses instead to be a piece of shit, I’m comfortable with them being ostracized while they sort themselves out. And if they can’t, I’m comfortable with them dying old, alone and confused wondering why nobody visits them.
This sounds like you are promoting an “I’m right, your wrong, and I have no responsibility to correct or educate.” mentality. I’m not sure if trusting the people with opposing views to change on their own is the best approach. I think only deepens divides and entrenches opposition.
People with opposing ideas do exist in a vacuum and will have no problem putting the time in to recruiting others to their way of thinking and promoting similar thinkers to positions of power and influence. Ostracizing those you disagree can just as easily put you in a bubble of isolation, or an echo chamber, as them.
Not to mention that discussing opposing ideas improves understanding both by defending your views and by better understanding the why and origins of their ideas.
There’s nothing wrong with having a “not my responsibility to correct or educate mentality”. These assholes are grown adults. If they haven’t figured things out by now then fuck em.
I think that there is something wrong with the “not my job” approach. I believe in the saying “The only thing evil needs to thrive is for good people to do nothing.”
Assuming that everyone has shared in your socioeconomic upbringing and therefore has the same access to diverse ideas is flawed.
I am personally inspired by Daryl Davis, a black musician who, through simple conversation, has convinced grown adult Ku Klux Klan members to change their ways and renounce the KKK.
I believe that people should work towards the changes they want to see manifest in the world.
I could see trying to change someones mind if you knew them closely, but otherwise its a waste of time. Racism and homophobia have social value because it isolates people they dont like. That is why they are open with their racism. If you try to change their mind, then not only will they not change their mind, not only will they report you to HR for harassing them, and not only will the homophobe running HR think youre a pussy, but a conga line of ugly fucking orcs is going to want to fight you now.
Its interesting you bring up the KKK, because its exactly that sort of prejudice i bring up. If you see one person say something that shocking and nobody is shocked, then they all agree. You can either realize that YOU are the outcast removed boy, or you can quit your job. If you fight it because youre the next Martin Luther King, then youll just get a bunch of harassment before you get tired and quit.
Ive lost so mqny great jobs because i thought id be openly gay in an industrial setting. Its not worth it, and neither is saying anything when cletus and jimbob are laughing about putting all thr trans people in a lathe along with the foreman. (Imagine their fake tits exploding when they hit the ground, and their wieners getting stuck in the bar! Herrherr herr herr. )
Now i keep my mouth shut and respect the fact that rednecks are subhumans that should all just be shot when they think these things. Sin e imtoo much of a pussy to go on a killing spree, i guess i just have to sit and get fucked, like how you should.
Yeah, I think you’ve got me right there. When it comes to being a bigot, I do believe in ostracizing and silencing, in order to put them in a tiny fringe echo chamber. That is much safer than having their ideas out in the open. Racists and bigots should be afraid of stating their opinion, this way their backwards-ass ideas die out with them. Because people aren’t racist from well thought out rational thought. Their racist because of emotions like fear and anger. Something is going wrong in their life and it’s easier to blame a marginalized group than it is it take responsibility. No amount of debate will fix that, and I’m tired of trying. Fuck them.
I also firmly believe in the paradox if tolerance. You cannot tolerate the intolerant, and part of that includes not treating their opinions as valid. Because they are not.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The paradox of tolerance states,or destroyed by the intolerant.
I understand the frustration and seeming futility in trying to change the minds of those with opposing views. It takes constant work and vigilance, but it is important challenge their ideas. Even if you make zero impact on them, you can reach other people. Especially if you have the discussion in a public venue, like an internet firum. Even if you don’t change any minds, if you truly believe in something then you should continue to work towards it.
As for the “they should already know better” argument, I wonder if you are familiar with Daryl Davis, a black musician who would sit with members of the KKK and talk to them about their beliefs. He has well over 20 robes from former klansmen who have given him their robes after he changed their views with those conversations. Turns out that most of them have never had anybody calmly listen to and then dispute the racist claims that they grew up with and have heard repeated their whole lives.
Notice how I am talking about confronting and challenging ideas, not tolerating them.
The only thing evil needs to thrive is for good people to do nothing.
I know of him, and applaud him. If I were a better man, perhaps I could do as he did. However, I no longer have that energy in me to waste. What I can do is shut their voices out of my world and my family’s world. From there, I hope the Daryl Davis’s of the world help them heal. But it will not be me.