Before Roe v. Wade were overturned I was critical about abortion, then we started hearing about all the trouble women go through and it shows how essential abortion is for reducing birth complications, even if it sounds illogical.
My main issue were when abortion was used as contraceptive, because at the time of abortion the body is increasing hormone production and then it’s tough on the woman emotionally when the fetus is removed, but then I learn that in those states sex-ed is very limited and contraceptives can be hard to get hold of. And without sex-ed and contraceptives abortion is the only option left.
In light of all that I now know why we need abortion and feel like a fool for opposing it.
Yup, and I’m still critical of abortion, but because of similar stuff to what you said, my official position is essentially pro-abortion, with some caveats to discourage things I find truly awful (e.g. no abortion after learning the gender unless it’s for a medical emergency).
I also applause your willingness to change your mind based on new facts learned and please don’t take this as an attack because it isn’t, it’s just a curiosity of mine.
Did body autonomy not factor into your previous stance? I’m sure we both agree woman are perfectly capable of making their own decisions with their own body, why does anyone need to be involved in what they choose to do.
Tangentially related but I saw a state in the US basically made it so rapists could choose the mother of their children by both having abortion be illegal and making it so rapists could share parental rights with their victim. Essentially forcing the mother to be involved with their abuser. Shits crazy yo.
Regarding bodily autonomy, my previous stance were something like this: Abortion is a major decision and women should be counselled to make sure they know what they go into, and maybe try and convince them to keep it.
And that stance is probably fine if we lived in a perfect world where a few women got pregnant by accident, and it were the only reason for abortion.
But live in a world with: rapists, incest, teen pregnancy, ectopic pregnancy, failing contraceptics, and many other reasons for abortion.
So I can only agree that the only way forward is full bodily autonomy.
That’s a fair enough stance even if I don’t fully agree with it.
I definitely agree with the counseling so people can make the decision that’s best for them but I don’t believe anyone should try and convince them one way or the other.
Thanks for giving me some of your time bud. Hope you have a good rest of your week.
because at the time of abortion the body is increasing hormone production and then it’s tough on the woman emotionally when the fetus is removed
I applaud you changing your mind in face of new information, I just kind of want to nitpick that being forced to carry a pregnancy that you don’t want to term is also going to be extremely physically and emotionally tough.
As a relative to a parent, who’s grandparents didn’t even want them but had to give birth to my parents, due to society stigma at the time, it honestly genuinely not worth it, esp with the amount of trauma my parent (dad) had to endure, due to not being loved and cared for, which has lead to further trauma extended to me too, due to unresolved pain. Abortion is a necessity. It saves lives alongside, helping people not suffer from further trauma and pain for the future for themselves and kids as well.
Well, sort of. In that in states that teach abstinence-only sexual education, there is a higher rate of teen pregnancy. I’m guessing you could extrapolate from that and find that teen abortion rates are higher, but I don’t have that data.
As I like to say to “pro-life” people: “Want to reduce abortion? Make contraception free and teach comprehensive sexual education.”
That’s the thing though. They aren’t pro life. They are anti sex that they don’t approve of.
Sure, but they don’t think of themselves that way. They see themselves as trying to stop what they see as murder. Yes, they ALSO don’t want people having sex that they don’t approve of, but data clearly shows higher rates of unplanned pregnancy in states that don’t teach people how not to get pregnant. So if they truly see abortion as horrendous, they should be trying to stop unplanned pregnancies before they occur.
Pointing out that dissonance can help them see the flaw in their reasoning, if they’re introspective enough to attempt consistency in their views.
(Source: My own life story, having grown up as the sufficiently introspective “pro-lifer” shown the flaws in my thinking as part of a long journey from a conservative youth to a progressive adult. 😅)
I suspect it is one of those things that conservatives imagine being all over the place because in their communities where they would be shamed for becoming pregnant while unmarried and where contraceptives are hard to get that is how they imagine they would handle it.
Before Roe v. Wade were overturned I was critical about abortion, then we started hearing about all the trouble women go through and it shows how essential abortion is for reducing birth complications, even if it sounds illogical.
My main issue were when abortion was used as contraceptive, because at the time of abortion the body is increasing hormone production and then it’s tough on the woman emotionally when the fetus is removed, but then I learn that in those states sex-ed is very limited and contraceptives can be hard to get hold of. And without sex-ed and contraceptives abortion is the only option left.
In light of all that I now know why we need abortion and feel like a fool for opposing it.
Yup, and I’m still critical of abortion, but because of similar stuff to what you said, my official position is essentially pro-abortion, with some caveats to discourage things I find truly awful (e.g. no abortion after learning the gender unless it’s for a medical emergency).
I also applause your willingness to change your mind based on new facts learned and please don’t take this as an attack because it isn’t, it’s just a curiosity of mine. Did body autonomy not factor into your previous stance? I’m sure we both agree woman are perfectly capable of making their own decisions with their own body, why does anyone need to be involved in what they choose to do.
Tangentially related but I saw a state in the US basically made it so rapists could choose the mother of their children by both having abortion be illegal and making it so rapists could share parental rights with their victim. Essentially forcing the mother to be involved with their abuser. Shits crazy yo.
Regarding bodily autonomy, my previous stance were something like this: Abortion is a major decision and women should be counselled to make sure they know what they go into, and maybe try and convince them to keep it.
And that stance is probably fine if we lived in a perfect world where a few women got pregnant by accident, and it were the only reason for abortion.
But live in a world with: rapists, incest, teen pregnancy, ectopic pregnancy, failing contraceptics, and many other reasons for abortion.
So I can only agree that the only way forward is full bodily autonomy.
That’s a fair enough stance even if I don’t fully agree with it. I definitely agree with the counseling so people can make the decision that’s best for them but I don’t believe anyone should try and convince them one way or the other.
Thanks for giving me some of your time bud. Hope you have a good rest of your week.
I applaud you changing your mind in face of new information, I just kind of want to nitpick that being forced to carry a pregnancy that you don’t want to term is also going to be extremely physically and emotionally tough.
As a relative to a parent, who’s grandparents didn’t even want them but had to give birth to my parents, due to society stigma at the time, it honestly genuinely not worth it, esp with the amount of trauma my parent (dad) had to endure, due to not being loved and cared for, which has lead to further trauma extended to me too, due to unresolved pain. Abortion is a necessity. It saves lives alongside, helping people not suffer from further trauma and pain for the future for themselves and kids as well.
I’m curious, is there ANY evidence of ‘abortion as contraceptive’ happening?
Well, sort of. In that in states that teach abstinence-only sexual education, there is a higher rate of teen pregnancy. I’m guessing you could extrapolate from that and find that teen abortion rates are higher, but I don’t have that data.
As I like to say to “pro-life” people: “Want to reduce abortion? Make contraception free and teach comprehensive sexual education.”
That’s the thing though. They aren’t pro life. They are anti sex that they don’t approve of.
Pregnancy is punishment for you having sex outside of marriage.
Which…tells you exactly what they think of women.
Sure, but they don’t think of themselves that way. They see themselves as trying to stop what they see as murder. Yes, they ALSO don’t want people having sex that they don’t approve of, but data clearly shows higher rates of unplanned pregnancy in states that don’t teach people how not to get pregnant. So if they truly see abortion as horrendous, they should be trying to stop unplanned pregnancies before they occur.
Pointing out that dissonance can help them see the flaw in their reasoning, if they’re introspective enough to attempt consistency in their views.
(Source: My own life story, having grown up as the sufficiently introspective “pro-lifer” shown the flaws in my thinking as part of a long journey from a conservative youth to a progressive adult. 😅)
I suspect it is one of those things that conservatives imagine being all over the place because in their communities where they would be shamed for becoming pregnant while unmarried and where contraceptives are hard to get that is how they imagine they would handle it.
Yeah, that’s what I thought.
What does this even mean? That’s literally all abortions?
From what I gather contraceptives ensures that the egg is not fertilized or not produced.
Whereas abortions is done after implantation.
Good point, in which case no abortion could ever be conctraceptive