Gen Z is choosing not to drive::Less Gen Z Americans own a driver’s license than previous generations, according to consulting firm McKinsey.

  • @jonne@infosec.pub
    link
    fedilink
    English
    13810 months ago

    Are they choosing, or can’t they afford to own a car with insurance and petrol costs going through the roof?

    • Eager Eagle
      link
      fedilink
      English
      34
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      It may be a choice for many. I only got a car recently at age 26, even though I could always afford one (or ask my parents at an earlier age). There’s also a decline in driver’s licenses and the desire to have/drive/maintain a vehicle. Frankly, I’m not sure I’d have one myself if public transportation and sidewalks were reliable in my area.

      • maegul (he/they)
        link
        fedilink
        English
        3010 months ago

        Yea. I think there’s genuine generational shift here. Which in many ways makes sense. I never heard a negative word from my elders/parents about cars, while I and many of my friends and partners have had one and arrived at fairly critical to down right negative views about cars and driving.

        Why it would be generational strikes me again as fairly obvious.

        Traffic congestion has only gotten worse over time. The freedom machine ideal of the car has therefore very much faded. And things like traffic jams and the general stress of driving and parking etc are the sorts of thing that are hard to unsee once you’ve seen them. The damage they do in destroying or preventing pedestrian friendly areas is similar. The whole climate thing shifts the value proposal again.

        And then there’s the pure generational factor too. Cars are relatively new. It makes sense that they’ve been on some hype curve this whole time, peaking with the boomers. Now it feels obvious we’ve overdone it and relied on them too much. Watching plenty of cars scramble to find a car park or get stuck in traffic, each bearing a single driver/passenger while taking up 5-10 square meters … again hard to unsee.

        Once you’ve seen or even lived a life without all that noise, they’re no longer the must haves they were for the past decades.

        • jan teli
          link
          fedilink
          English
          1610 months ago

          This also depends on where you live, I’m gen z and I have a license (no car tho, saving money for it) but since I don’t live in a big city a car’s still important to get around (there is a mediumish-sized city ~15 min drive away, but I’m in australia so everything’s real spread out)

          • maegul (he/they)
            link
            fedilink
            English
            310 months ago

            Oh for sure. The ideal type curve settles at an appropriate level of usage, and spread out and small towns make sense for cars. Though there is the related view of lower density versus higher density living. Either way though there will be variation and the question is whether the emphasis is well measured.

      • @papaya@possumpat.io
        link
        fedilink
        English
        12
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        Yep. My parents offered to buy my gen Z brother a car, and he asked for an e-bike instead. I (a millenial) also choose to not have a car for both environmental reasons and just… not wanting to drive and deal with traffic and car maintenance and whatnot. Thankfully we live in a city whose public transportation’s getting better by day.

      • @JDubbleu@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        8
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        My partner and I live in Silicon Valley and it’s cheaper for us to rent a car when we need it than to own one. We’d use it maybe twice a month so rentals just make more sense. We’re moving to San Francisco soon though and at that point we’ll likely never own a car and just transit everywhere.

    • @tsonfeir@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      2410 months ago

      I saw a 1998 corolla for sale on the street for $5000. The basic buy-in for anything these days it insane. This “market rate” shit needs to die.

      • @Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        1010 months ago

        Toyota Corollas are really popular though. For a Kia of the same age the previous owner will pay you 5k if you take it off their hands.

    • @Grippler@feddit.dk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      9
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      The article’s metric seems to be whether or not they own a driver’s license, not a car. So whether or not they can afford to own a car isn’t really a part of this article’s dataset, although they do touch on why they don’t own a car in the article as well.

    • @NarrativeBear@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      610 months ago

      Definitely a choice, and if transit was more viable without it being stuck in the same car traffic I am sure more people would make the switch.

    • @eestileib@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      610 months ago

      My son is getting gifted an electric car from a family friend.

      He still doesn’t really give a shit about getting a license, it’s crazy to me.

      • @Fondots@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        14
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        I think there’s also the issue of where do kids have to go hang out anymore?

        By and large, malls are dead/dying, and some don’t even allow unsupervised kids anymore.

        Movies are expensive. Restaurants are expensive. Concerts are expensive (if you’re lucky enough to live somewhere with easy access to concert venues, if you’re in the suburbs you probably have an uphill battle trying to convince your parents to let you go wandering around the city unsupervised to go to a concert) Arcades basically don’t even exist anymore.

        They can barely even go hang out in a park without being harassed by some Karen or the cops, and of course parks usually close at dusk and kind of depend on the weather being decent so in many places there’s a good chunk of the year where parks are undesirable.

        You can hang out at your friends’ houses, but depending on your area there’s a decent chance that they may be in walking or biking distance so no need for a car, and if you’re just going to be hanging around the house, not a big deal for Mom or Dad to drop you off/pick you up, not like you’re going to really need a car while you’re there, you got nowhere to go anyway. And of course we get some parents these days who are really weird about their kids going over to other people’s homes, which leaves staying home and hanging out online.

        About the only thing I can think of that I used to do as a kid that might still be accessible for kids and might necessitate them having their own car is to go hang out at the local comic/game shop to play magic, d&d, etc. Because most of them are pretty cool about people just coming to hang out, but even that could really be a “hey parental unit, can I get a ride?” kind of thing.

        Plus, if you have a tight group of friends you always hang out with, you may only need a couple drivers. Even going back to when I was a teen/young adult, a lot of my friends didn’t have a license and many of them who did didn’t have their own car or couldn’t count on borrowing their parents’ car. I know the core group I hung out with was probably around 6-10 people, and one other guy and I did 99% of our driving whenever we went to do something because we were the ones with cars. Probably up until I was about 23 I spent a lot of time picking friends up and giving them rides places because I had a car and they didn’t.

        • @chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          6
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          I’ve heard this called “the death of the third place”. The first place is home, the second place is work, the third place is everything else. It used to be that people could hang out at bars, malls, bowling alleys, etc. for not astronomical prices. It’s gotten too expensive to be out.

      • @SuperIce@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        810 months ago

        Or younger people just have a generally negative view towards cars as a primary mode of transport. I realized that ever since I moved to a city, I haven’t needed a car and cars just make cities worse. I can really afford a really nice car, but I have no need for one.

    • Ephera
      link
      fedilink
      English
      310 months ago

      Well, probably a bit of both. For many people, a car isn’t a necessity, so they can choose to not afford it…

    • @catastrophicblues@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      110 months ago

      I can’t afford one, but I also just don’t want to. I get groceries delivered and can Uber around. I just don’t travel all that much.

    • Rentlar
      link
      fedilink
      English
      3410 months ago

      If you work hard and save up, you could live in a nice van down by the river!

    • @Grippler@feddit.dk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      18
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      The unit of measure in this article is whether or not they have a driver’s licence, not a car…I’m pretty sure even gen Zers can afford a driver’s license, if they actually wanted it. Not having a driver’s licence is very much a choice, to a much higher degree than owner a car (or house)

        • @fidodo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          610 months ago

          Because it’s convenient to be able to drive a car? There are lots of cases when you may borrow a car to do things. Teenagers might borrow their parents car to do errands and stuff.

          • @Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            810 months ago

            As someone who has absolutely no desire to ever own or drive a car, I’m getting my licence based purely on the off chance that I might need to anyway (but I’d probably just hire for a day).

        • @Grippler@feddit.dk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          3
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          I got a licence when I was 18 (legal driving age where I live) despite not owning a car or planning to anytime soon. I could still borrow my parent’s car sometimes, which was nice. This article specifically talks about teens in the 16-17 year old range, very much able to borrow a car from parents (if they have one)

      • @Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        1710 months ago

        In places like Finland it costs over a thousand euros to get your driver’s license. That’s less than a car obviously but not nothing either

        • @Grippler@feddit.dk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          10
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          Yeah it costs around 2k Euros where I live, which is enough to also buy a small beater…but this article is US-focused only, and it’s significantly cheaper to get a licence in the US, hence my comment.

        • @Obi@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          410 months ago

          That still sounds on the cheap side for Europe, in some countries you’ll easily have spent north of 2k€ on all the mandatory lessons and exams, or even more if you’re a slow learner or fail the tests a few times.

    • @Yuki@kutsuya.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      1510 months ago

      It costs about 400K to 500K where I live to buy a house that used to be around 150K 30 years ago. Times are fucked

      • @fidodo@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        510 months ago

        That’s not that bad unless that’s already adjusted for inflation. If you haven’t adjusted it already then 150k would be 310k today. Where I’m at house costs have increased 5x after adjusting for inflation.

        • @Yuki@kutsuya.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          510 months ago

          This is after inflation has been calculated. I live in the Netherlands atm, you can look up how fucked that market is.

          • @MoonRaven@feddit.nl
            link
            fedilink
            English
            310 months ago

            My dad bought a house as the only worker and supported my mom and 2 kids 30 years ago. Now, I cannot buy that house even though I earn more than double than what his job currently pays while I don’t have to support other people. It’s crazy. The Netherlands as well btw.

      • @Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        210 months ago

        When my parents bought my childhood home in the 90’s they paid 150k euros for it and when they sold it in 2010 or so they got around 300k I believe. While it’s more money it’s not worth the double. It pretty much cost that much to buy their 2-room apartment then

    • @Arkaelus@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      410 months ago

      Hell, I’m a Millennial and it’s a no-brainer… Food or gas, emission taxes, road taxes, maintenance costs, and everything else which comes with owning a car. Including the car itself. And that’s just from an economic standpoint, I’m not even gonna go into the impact it has on the climate and how EVs are mostly just expensive and not-really-efficient pieces of jewellery still.

  • @Lemonparty@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    75
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    They’re choosing not to drive for the same reason they’re choosing to be more thrifty, choosing not to go to college, choosing to live with their parents longer, and choosing not to buy homes. See if you can find the common denominator.

  • Runwaylights
    link
    fedilink
    English
    3510 months ago

    Quite interesting to see them trying to live without a car in a society where cars are such a necessity. I live in the Netherlands and many of my friends don’t have a license or own a car, but over here the infrastructure is build around accessibility for people without a car. For example, I live in a small town and I can hop on my bike and reach 5 supermarkets within 15 minutes. But it’s interesting to see people trying out different modes of transportation where it’s not so easy.

        • @Crashumbc@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          1010 months ago

          Depends on how often you drive.

          there’s a lot of variables, but figure owning a car costs 300-400 a month minimum…

          If you don’t need it everyday for work I can easily see ride apps/taxis being much cheaper.

    • @mriormro@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      510 months ago

      I’m 34 and never had a driver’s license. Never really needed one and I don’t particularly enjoy driving but happy to say that if you live in one of our larger, denser cities you can get along without ever operating a car.

    • @Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      410 months ago

      My town (germany) of about 10k has 2 major supermarkets (not the kind of walmart sized) in a 15min bicycle time.
      2 or 3 smaller shops within 10-15min walking time.

  • The Snark Urge
    link
    fedilink
    English
    2210 months ago

    Because these days there’s a dialogue about whether driving is economically worthwhile, moral, or even fun. There used to be no talk about that, and so the only question was whether you could afford a beater or a status symbol.

  • @Specal@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    2210 months ago

    I mean I owned a car from the ages of 18 to 25, never had a claim.

    I’m 27 now and looked at getting a car for the odd time I need one and and insurance premiums are an average of £1100 to £1700. Why bother? I’ll just continue to get the train

  • Resol van Lemmy
    link
    fedilink
    English
    2210 months ago

    My family keeps pressuring me to learn how to drive. I still say no, and will keep doing so for the rest of my life basically. I seriously do not wanna contribute to pollution and congestion.

    In my country you’re expected to know how to drive as early as 15, way before you even get your permit. I say fuck that.

    • Fellstone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      5
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      I mean, you could learn how to drive but then never actually drive just to get them off your back. Besides, there is a chance you could be in a situation where you need to drive.

      Plus, driver’s licenses are the most commonly accepted form of ID.

      • Resol van Lemmy
        link
        fedilink
        English
        310 months ago

        In a situation like this, I likely would’ve forgotten how to drive regardless since I never do it, and who knows what kind of disaster is waiting to happen in this case?

        Also, I could just use my passport or my actual ID card.

    • @AA5B@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      2
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      One of my kids is saying similar. While I respect and support that choice, we’re in the US so that seriously limits the places you can live. I keep saying he really needs to learn how to drive while I’m helping him get started in life, then see if he can figure out a life without a car. Then it would be his choice, not a limitation

      • @notgold@aussie.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        310 months ago

        My parents did the same thing for me. They made sure I could drive then encouraged me to take the bus. That way I would never be stuck.

        • @AA5B@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          110 months ago

          I’m not quite following this … if you’re saying to make sure they can drive manual transmission, I doubt they’ll ever see one. While I’ve said all my adult life that’s an important skill, the reality is in the US, manual transmissions have been pretty rare. It may have been a decade ago where is saw it was less than 5% of sales and has pretty much disappeared. With the advent of CVT, there’s no longer really a point, and of course EVs have no need for any transmission

          • @RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            110 months ago

            Yeah… You’re probably right. They’re still quite popular in foreign countries due to mechanical simplicity/robustness. In fact I’ve noted car rentals that are automatic tend to be a bit more expensive then manuals, which the locals use.

            Regardless, do your thing and have fun.

    • @trixter313@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      2
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      Another gen-z here, yeah I have no interest in something that requires me to pay insurance even if I’m not using it when my ebike gets me everywhere I need to go. Not to mention having way less potential to hurt someone else because of a lapse of attention on the roads. Add on the health and environmental benefits and that I don’t pay for electricity in my house so it’s free to fuel.

      Lots of these comments feel out of touch or just in touch with their own ideals a little too much.

      • @spader312@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        3
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        Car insurance is getting super expensive even more so for younger folks. My renewal came in with GEICO and they raised my 6mo premium from $2500 to $3300. So I got a bunch of quotes from different companies all of them were around $3500-$4000 matching the same coverage. It’s insane.

  • @TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    2110 months ago

    Car ownership is more expensive than it used to be + a greater proportion of young people live in cities than they used to.

    • @BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      310 months ago

      I would ride public more but routes are scarce in my area. In rush hour it takes about 25 min to get to the closest stop, and when I get off it’s about a half mile walk to my office and it easily gets to the 100s in the summer.

  • @scrappydoo@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    19
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    Try living in Singapore, where it now costs SGD146,000 (USD106,000) just to have the right to own a car for ten years (a Certificate of Entitlement).

    To be clear, that fee doesn’t actually buy you a car, it’s simply the cost of being allowed to own a car. For ten whole years, then you need to buy another one.

    “A new standard Toyota Camry Hybrid costs around S$250,000 [~USD186,500] in Singapore, which includes the cost of a COE and taxes. That is about six times more expensive than in the US.”

    It’s certainly one way to encourage the public to use mass transit (which is pretty good, luckily!).

    Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-67014420

  • @Clent@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    1710 months ago

    All the articles have been written on millennial’s so now they’re going to sub in Gen Z.