This happened in Toronto on October 24th

  • Cyborganism
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    9714 days ago

    I heard Teslas are supposed to have manual release latches inside.

    In any case, doors should always be manual anyway. This isn’t the first time this happened and I’m surprised there isn’t a regulation for this yet.

    • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod
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      9414 days ago

      If we investigated car accidents like we did plane accidents we’d probably have banned them by now.

      • @apprehensively_human@lemmy.ca
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        1413 days ago

        Investigators arrive on scene. Immediately notice how the infrastructure was designed for gridlock rush hour where nothing is moving. Are appalled that the only safety training the motorists received was completed 20 years ago and never refreshed. Dismayed that these circumstances are permitted in densely populated areas.

    • Pennomi
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      3714 days ago

      They do have manual release latches, but if you have never used them they might be hard to find. Especially in the panic of a burning car.

      Really vehicle electronic doors should operate the same way they (usually?) do in buildings - in case of power loss they default to unlatched.

      • @NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        3614 days ago

        Power loss isn’t necessarily a good choice even in a traditional ICE car with a battery, let alone one with a bigass EV battery.

        Because it makes it super easy to break into a car (pop the hood and unplug two connectors) AND very likely will remain charged throughout much of the fire.

        No. The answer is you have fucking manual locks and door handles that don’t require you to pry open a panel.

      • @anonymouse2@sh.itjust.works
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        3214 days ago

        The article says that some Model Ys don’t have a manual release on the rear doors. Can’t imagine how that passes any country’s safety standards.

      • @Auli@lemmy.ca
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        413 days ago

        Have you looked at teslas manual for the back doors. Some are behind panels that have to be removed. You are not doing that well burying alive.

    • @Naz@sh.itjust.works
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      2714 days ago

      The BMW manual door release is pulling the handle twice. This kind of negligence is insane and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration should slap them with a punitive fine and a mandatory recall.

    • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet
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      14 days ago

      and I’m surprised there isn’t a regulation for this yet.

      Don’t be. Expect any existing regulations to be rolled back soon.

      There definitely needs to be a way for people outside the car to open it. People involved in accidents are often incapacitated.

      • @Confused_Emus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        313 days ago

        Do these panels and speaker grills at least have a tooless design so they’re easy to remove if you’re aware of them? This design just sounds so dumb.

        • @Sporkbomber@lemm.ee
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          813 days ago

          It looks like it, but they’re still hidden. If you didn’t know to look under a mat while you’re car is fire I doubt it would be easy to find.

          The article also says that not all model Y have releases in the rear, so even if you know ‘well my model Y has them here’ you still might be screwed.

    • @Rookeh@startrek.website
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      614 days ago

      They do, but only in the front.

      The only reason to use the button is that when you press it, it lowers the window slightly so that it clears the door trim when you open it (the windows are frameless).

      Although, I don’t see why that couldn’t have been integrated into a single mechanism rather than having two separate controls for the same function.

      • @AstralPath@lemmy.ca
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        813 days ago

        Absolutely terrible design if the window needs to be lowered on a frameless door before it can be opened.

        My 2007 Subaru Impreza had frameless windows that don’t have this problem. The window makes a pressure seal against a gasket that does not impede the operation of the door in any way.

  • @Boomkop3@reddthat.com
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    5814 days ago

    “seemingly”

    Ye, it seemed like it so we just decided we’d rather burn alive than to actually try opening the door.

    News titles sometimes

    • @streetfestival@lemmy.caOP
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      1014 days ago

      Fair, but at least they’re reporting it and connecting the dots re: this tesla safety issue, which I haven’t seen from any legacy media

          • @DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca
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            613 days ago

            They are safer for the occupants. With their increased size, increased sound dampening, and reduced visibility, they are more dangerous to those outside of the vehicle.

            • @SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
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              13 days ago

              Edit: my view was changed. I was wrong. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

              Oh sure, but A LOT of people don’t have to worry about that. I go from my house directly the highway for 1 hour before I get to my job. I’d rather be safer on the highway for my 2+ hours of commuting a day than the off chance some random is walking on the highway where he shouldn’t.

              • @DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca
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                613 days ago

                I’m close to 2m tall, and the hoods of the trucks I walk by on my way to work are up to my shoulders, I think things like size aren’t really helping. Naturally, maybe 1 of every 10 trucks this size appear to actually be for work.

                I think a lot of the modern safety improvements are great, but just making every vehicle gigantic is doing a lot of harm.

                • @SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
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                  213 days ago

                  Agreed. And having automated controls for breaking would be a magnificent leap forward. Unless the government steps in to slow down those products there isn’t anything to be done.

                  You can see reform starting in the form of the “Carolina squat” being outlawed in a lot of states to help alleviate some of that pain.

              • @bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net
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                413 days ago

                Literally everyone should worry about that.

                Does anybody drop off their children at school? Do they cross the street? Do they travel?

                Pedestrian hostile cars are an everybody issue.

                • @SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
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                  -313 days ago

                  Come on. Yes I agree with you but obviously you know that there is nuance to that issue just as others. We aren’t talking about gun control.

          • @Boomkop3@reddthat.com
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            413 days ago

            There’s more to safety than having the biggest or fanciest car. It’s road design, rules, speed, training, etc.

            With the skills of an average American driver you wouldn’t get your license in some countries.

            • @SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
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              313 days ago

              Yea! Most of us are fucking horrible at driving. Automated processes for safety make us lazier too.

              Our road design is pretty well done but the speed/training is fucking atrocious.

    • @DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca
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      13 days ago

      Worried about libel, it is very likely that someone like Musk would sue.

      If they said “It was the fault of Tesla that these people are dead” without proof and without it being a quote from someone else, they can be sued pretty easily.

      Authorities are still investigating the crash and fire. But the details that we have so far implicate to some degree the electronic doors used by Tesla and other automakers, which require power to open.

      • @Mango@lemmy.world
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        113 days ago

        I’d like to see Tesla do that because afterwards the court of public opinion will eat them alive!

  • raoul
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    5514 days ago

    The Elon Musk-owned automaker has a troubling history of owners getting locked in their cars without power. Some of these cases may be down to user error, since most Teslas come with manual release levers.

    Of course, let’s blame the users 🙄

      • @ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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        813 days ago

        Yea the cheapest ones skipped the manual release for the back doors. Gotta deliver maximum value to shareholders!

    • @SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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      13 days ago

      Now, now, remember correlation is not causation. Maybe it’s not the unintuitive design; maybe a disproportionate number of idiots buy Teslas?

    • @Sporkbomber@lemm.ee
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      13 days ago

      In the case of the model Y referenced, this release is under a mat. You wouldn’t see it in normal operation.

      • Nik282000
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        1113 days ago

        In case of emergency, lift the floor mat and input the 16 digit release code.

    • @GetOffMyLan@programming.dev
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      14 days ago

      I don’t want to be a dick but not using the mechanism to open them is user error.

      But it does also sound like they aren’t very well placed in some models. I feel like the manual release being the same as any car would make sense. As a fucking standard door handle.

      I assume the no power locking is an anti theft thing. But if you’re in the car already just provide a handle.

      • @BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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        6414 days ago

        If the door can’t be opened easily in a panicked life or death situation, it’s a design flaw and needs to be recalled and fixed.

      • raoul
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        3513 days ago

        I will be a dick: this is one of those imbeciles teck-bro takes, always comming with excuses for big tech "but actualy… "

        If you design a door handle and people cannot open it: your design is shit. Point.

        This was stupid when apple did it with the ‘you’re holding the phone wrong, idiot’, it is criminal when it is done on a security feature.

        • @BCsven@lemmy.ca
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          013 days ago

          It is because people don’t get a full walk through of how to unlatch it later on…they might on delivery day but at that point people are excited about a new car and not paying attention. And then because they never use it, they forget it exists

          • @SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            13 days ago

            Emergency exit mechanisms should be designed in such a way that one CAN forget about it or never even know about it, then have it obvious, readily available, and usable, all for/by the dumbest motherfucker in existence, in an emergency situation.

            The most common analogous situation is emergency exit door signage. Most companies do an annual fire drill, which isn’t enough to really learn anything. Emergency exit signs are easy to interpret and anyone can understand what they mean and use them to get to safety, regardless of prior experience.

            Vehicle doors should be the same. Tesla front doors tend to be easy and obvious to open in an emergency (I own one and front seat passengers frequently use the emergency latch instead of the door button), but the rear doors (for the people seated closest to the damn battery nonetheless) have ridiculously difficult emergency opening procedures.

            • @BCsven@lemmy.ca
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              413 days ago

              I agree. Some people aren’t level headed in a panic scenario. They need glow in the dark arrows like the markings on jet planes pointing to the canopy release

              • heftig
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                111 days ago

                Some? I’d say this applies to almost everyone.

                • @BCsven@lemmy.ca
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                  111 days ago

                  I may be biased as a person that has been in a lot of scenarios where I remain levelheaded. Paramedics suggested I become one after seeing my calmness dealing with an accident scenario.

          • @vxx@lemmy.world
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            13 days ago

            Just watch a video of how fast car fires spread into the cabin, and then ask yourself how often you asked someone how to leave a car in case of emergency before you entered.

            Add panic and the fact that you have to remove a panel or look under the floor mat to pull a string away from you, and you maybe will understand how this is just bad design.

            • @BCsven@lemmy.ca
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              213 days ago

              Oh I know it is not good. Even my Honda Fit has a messed up lock system, its almost like a sideways roller switch without a truly discernable lock/unlock position so in tu dark you can’t tell if it is rolled forward or not. Messes us up when we are in the passenger seat and son:t have the powelock handy

          • @VieuxQueb@lemmy.ca
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            813 days ago

            So it’s not an intuitive design. A major error by itself. Since in a panic a passenger who does not know the secret is stranded inside.

            My sister has a tesla, I have ridden in it, and I have no clue how to open the door without power.

            • @BCsven@lemmy.ca
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              313 days ago

              I get it, my friend has ModelS. He showed me the mechanical release, when I asked about loss of power. It is not intuitive.

      • @ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml
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        2714 days ago

        Opening a Rear Door with No Power

        You can open a rear door manually (if equipped) in the unlikely situation in which Model Y has no power:

        • Remove the mat from the bottom of the rear door pocket.
        • Press the red tab to remove the access door.
        • Pull the mechanical release cable forward.

        Note

        Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a manual release for the rear doors.

        Opening the front doors seems easy enough in the user manual, but opening the back doors requires you to remove a hidden panel then pull a cable, but not all versions of the car even have that hidden panel. Assuming the one in this article did, the car owner would need to give a little safety briefing to every passenger if you want to expect them to know how to open the door. And I’m really not sure what you’re expected to do if you have a kid in a carseat in the back.

  • Captain Aggravated
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    4813 days ago

    Explain to me how the engineers aren’t guilty of manslaughter?

    Look, I lasted one semester at engineering school, washed all the way out almost immediately. I still had to write a 10-page case study on an engineering failure, and the one I chose was the McDonnell-Douglas DC-10 cargo door failures. They teach this shit in failing community colleges in purple states. The buck stops with the PE that signed the plans. Drag his ass into criminal court. The person who allowed this design to go to production does not need to be free.

    • @Laser@feddit.org
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      2313 days ago

      They won’t because this would require a trial where rich people wouldn’t benefit, which is a waste of government resources, which goes against the Department of Government Efficiency’s goals. More efficient to throw these poor souls’ families under the bus.

    • @buddascrayon@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      The people who design the Tesla cars are not engineers. They’re a bunch of tech geeks who think they’re engineers.

      I mean, ask yourself this why is. Every single automobile that exists today with the exception of the Tesla can handle rain and car washes with absolutely no issues and yet Teslas have to have a special button to close off certain parts of the car so that the air intake doesn’t get too wet otherwise the car ends up stinking horribly of mildew.

      • @uis@lemm.ee
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        1013 days ago

        The people who design the Tesla cars are not engineers. They’re a bunch of tech geeks who think they’re engineers.

        There is still someone’s signature.

        If needed, liquidate company.

    • @werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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      813 days ago

      Where’s the Safety FMEA! Show me the FMEA!

      Risk 3452.7: feature, door. Function, opens during fire, failure mode: won’t open during fire, trapping people inside. Cause: the darn things are electronic! So if the battery fails in a big ass fire with people inside, those fuckers are gonna cook real good! Engineering controls in place to prevent the failure mode: 200,000 units delivered in time! As in it took time to deliver the units. Risk rank: 😉 it’s Frank! 😄 My name’s Frank! Not rank!

      Well I’m glad we took time to mitigate these risks.

    • @oyo@lemm.ee
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      112 days ago

      There are no PEs signing off on “consumer products,” or even little things like airplanes.

      (Seriously, PEs are only relevant in engineering fields where design is easily governed by standards, such as HVAC and civil.)

      • Captain Aggravated
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        112 days ago

        There are absolutely engineers (with or without PE licenses, I’m not sure if that’s necessary in aerospace) signing off on airplanes, even after they’re built. For a mechanic to make a major modification or repair to an airframe or power plant it needs to be approved somehow, either covered by the airplane’s original Type Certificate and detailed in the maintenance manual, covered in a supplemental type certificate (STC), or they can work with an aeronautical engineer to design and approve the repair. I have forgotten the exact line between “you can get an A&P IA to approve this skin patch plate” and “You need to either call an AE to design a repair for this but it might be cheaper to buy a whole wing.”

        • @oyo@lemm.ee
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          112 days ago

          I have a degree in aeronautical engineering, but I’m not a PE. It’s a very specific license in the US that isn’t applicable outside of a few engineering disciplines. There are no statutory requirements for a PE to sign off on a car or plane design; their safety is governed by other means.

  • @psycho_driver@lemmy.world
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    3113 days ago

    Further investigation shows that three of the four had recently posted mean things about Elon Musk on Xitter. A representative from the company issued the following statement. “It is unfortunate that the fourth passenger, who was seemingly innocent of blasphemy, chose to associate with the guilty parties. Sometimes collateral damage has to occur in our attempt to cleanse the population.”

  • Rentlar
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    2614 days ago

    CBC Link

    I can think of only a few situations where you’d want to get out of a car quickly, where you’d have enough time to look under all the matte covers to find a manual door release switch that may or may not be installed. A fire is certainly not one of them. At the very least shouldn’t they be equipped with a Nothammer…?

    • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod
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      1814 days ago

      A lot of newer cars have stronger glass that even these or the spring-loaded kind can’t break.

        • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod
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          313 days ago

          They did it ostensibly for safety, as it will keep people from being ejected in a rollover. However, they also probably have manual releases.

      • @NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        1214 days ago

        tesla gonna tesla so I assume they are as dangerous as can be.

        For the rest? There is always (?) one window that isn’t reinforced. So that CAN be an issue if your cabin is significantly damaged. But otherwise? It is a problem to find in a high adrenaline emergency and you SHOULD be aware which window to smash, but you are 3-6 smacks away from being out.

    • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet
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      714 days ago

      Everyone in my family has one of those in their car. Unfortunately most of them are buried under 100 things in the center console.

    • @madcaesar@lemmy.world
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      313 days ago

      Hammers aren’t ideal, they take force, knowing how to strike, they could shatter glass in your eye.

      All of this shit is easily avoided by a fucking handle on the fucking door.

    • @eyes@lemmy.world
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      313 days ago

      I’ve seen it said elsewhere that these don’t work on the windows of current Tesla models as they’re laminated.

  • Ephera
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    1414 days ago

    Is there an advantage to such an electronic door opener? If they have to include a manual release anyways, it really doesn’t seem like they’d save space.

    I guess, there might be novelty to just pressing a button, but not burning alive is also quite a cool feature.

  • @TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com
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    1313 days ago

    It would be crazy sci-fi villian if Musk had mobile access to everyone’s Tesla and he is just killing off customers he doesn’t like by doing shit like refusing to unlock the doors.

    • @lobut@lemmy.ca
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      813 days ago

      I have a Civic with a manual door handle, but after reading your comment … I think I’m going to get one to leave in the car just in case.

      • @IMALlama@lemmy.world
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        413 days ago

        Should your car ever wind up submerged in water a hammer could come in handy. Make sure it’s a “break glass” type hammer, which has a point. Thick tempered glass is surprisingly strong.

    • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod
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      713 days ago

      The spring-loaded kind are a lot easier to use in a cramped car and by people with less upper body strength. However, those won’t work on newer cars with dual-pane or laminated glass

    • @eyes@lemmy.world
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      713 days ago

      I’ve seen people say that emergency window hammers don’t work with Tesla windows as they’re laminated in current models.

    • @gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      113 days ago

      Something pointed would be way better, doesn’t even have to be big

      Many are built into USB adapters for the old cigarette lighter style of plug, so if you’ve got a car with one of those plugs you can slot it in and if you ever need it you pop it out, put the plug to the window and slam, shatters right away, don’t need that much force or space at all

      • @Jesusaurus@lemmy.world
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        213 days ago

        This effectively is what an emergency hammer is - a “hammer” but with a narrow point specifically to be able to break the glass from the inside.

        • @gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          013 days ago

          Yeah but normal people are going to read “emergency hammer” and think you mean it like a carpenters hammer you have for emergencies

          The product has a stupid name, I blame engineers (as usual for bad naming of things, sorry guys)

          • @Sludgeyy@lemmy.world
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            213 days ago

            They are called Window breaker safety hammers because they are shaped like hammers, and you use it like a hammer.

            They make window breakers on emergency flashlights for vehicles. Those aren’t called hammers, but an emergency flashlight with a window breaker.

  • @DragonsInARoom@lemmy.world
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    412 days ago

    Why isn’t there a manual mechanism for the door? Why didn’t the passengers use an emergency glass hammer? Why isn’t there an emergency release for the door?

  • @Stoposto@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    Why is it Lemmy is okay with Outrage culture when it targets Tesla/SpaceX/Apple, yet criticized else where?

    So reading these comments most people don’t understand that many cars have electronic doors for several valid design reasons and yet all I have seen have manual overrides. Tesla as many other cars without window trims have to lower the glass before you can open the door. Most if not all cars even German makes do this electronicly but like my Tesla, have a manual handle that mechanicly drops the glass windows panel so you can open normally.

    Both my Tesla and friends VW Benzin(Gas) car som 15 years ago use the same system… If the car have no trim and electronic windows, you also have this design issue, which extends this to ALL car brands.

    But yea let’s throw reason out the window and yell “Tesla bad!!!”…

    How if it is true some models don’t have the manual override (and that might include none Tesla cars if there indeed is no regulation that mandates it) I feel bad for the people not knowing or the safety ratings ignoring this oversight.

    I can just say, mine does and is mentioned in the safety rating used in EU.

    • @GameGod@lemmy.ca
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      913 days ago

      If there was a burning car and I had to open your Tesla’s door from the outside to save you, you’re dead because I wouldn’t be able to figure out how to use the handle, regardless of whether the thing was still powered or not.

        • icedterminal
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          313 days ago

          If the occupant is unconscious, dragging one out of the window can make things significantly worse if there are injuries from a crash. The door handle should always be available. Even if the door won’t open on one side because of an impact there, use the other side. There are much better alternatives than dragging someone over shattered glass out of a window.

          • Noxy
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            413 days ago

            It’s safety glass. More like pebbles than sharp shards. Please drag me over shattered automotive glass if I’m otherwise burning alive in a car.

        • @gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          -113 days ago

          Not risking my life EXTRA for someone still choosing to drive a Tesla after all of this, I’ll keep on keepin’ on and leave that to the professionals

          • @CanadianBeetroot@lemm.ee
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            013 days ago

            Not saving a life because of their choice of vehicle… that’s really sad.

            Imagine seeing a car on fire and actually saying to yourself “ hell nah, screw that guy, he chose to drive a Tesla, he deserve to burn alive”.

            Great way of thinking man. I hope I don’t live anywhere near you.

            • @gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              013 days ago

              Imagine seeing a car on fire and actually saying to yourself “ hell nah, screw that guy, he chose to drive a Tesla, he deserve to burn alive”.

              Great way of thinking man

              Strawman: destroyed

              Try:

              Fuck helping that guy, I’m not figuring out how his stupid door works and potentially getting hurt myself because he chose to drive a stupidly designed vehicle

              Notice how in yours it’s some sort of bigotry towards the car, while I specifically pointed out that Tesla’s are objectively less safe to interact with and that was the reason, with 0 sympathy being offered because they chose to drive a badly designed car

              • @CanadianBeetroot@lemm.ee
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                013 days ago

                you could learn how to open a Tesla door so that if you ever come across a Tesla that’s on fire, you could save a life. There are plenty of youtube videos, less than 10 seconds of your time.

                You could make a difference in someone’s life.

                • @gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  013 days ago

                  Lol, fuck learning how to open someone else’s car for an extremely niche situation, they can burn, I do not care about their poor choices

      • @Stoposto@lemmy.world
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        -313 days ago

        I have had many people ride in my Tesla and most of them opened the door by pulling the emergency handle… By instinct. So great job reading a headline and commenting without ever being in a Tesla, calling something you have never seen “bad design”.

        Some kind of argument this group deals with when people say " busses/trains don’t work [instead made up thing they have never seen]"

        Great job furthering the cause or any change at improving anything.

        • @GameGod@lemmy.ca
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          313 days ago

          I’m talking about accessing the Tesla from the outside. It’s not obvious how you do that, and I’ve been picked up by several Teslas that were Ubers. (IIRC isn’t there something like the handles don’t pop out if the doors are locked too? I just remember that I’ve struggled with this)

          • @Stoposto@lemmy.world
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            013 days ago

            So anyone in a sports car? Porsche, Massaratti, Audi, Ferrari and many others used these way before Tesla…

    • @LePoisson@lemmy.world
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      913 days ago

      I think it’s more like

      Car on fire PANIC!!! OH SHIT I can’t just pull this door handle to get out. Oh God it’s so hot, what’s happening … (Get disoriented) … Trying to find a way out still. A series of steps with a hidden release has to happen - hope you knew that before you climbed in.

      Yeah many cars do have electronic doors, but they can be easily opened without electricity in a simple way. Yank the handle.

      For some reason Tesla thought that was a bad idea. It’s stupid, I know they should have broken a window but when you’re panicking going on years of experience opening car doors you’re going to try to open them the way you know how.

      So, yeah, it’s not just because it’s a Tesla - it’s because it’s a dangerous and dumb engineering choice that they made which puts people’s lives in danger unnecessarily.

      • @Stoposto@lemmy.world
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        -513 days ago

        Many people in my Tesla have janked the emergency handle, rather than clicking the button to get out without any emergency, there isn’t any Door handle, there is the emergency handle… Which kinda proves my point and your outrage comment proves you haven’t even been in a Tesla yet comment on “it’s bad design”.

        Same kind of comments from people against seatbelts when they were introduced. “It’s not the standard and people will burn in their cars” without seeing or trying a seatbelt.

        It very much is because it’s a Tesla because my point about Tesla not being the only car which use electric windows control pre opening the door. Yet people hating on “EV needs power to get out” failing to realise that many Gas powered vehicles require the same thing. Some even implemented explosives that need to push the door off to be able to get out.

        • @ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml
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          613 days ago

          Many people in my Tesla have janked the emergency handle, rather than clicking the button to get out without any emergency, there isn’t any Door handle, there is the emergency handle… Which kinda proves my point and your outrage comment proves you haven’t even been in a Tesla yet comment on “it’s bad design”.

          That might be true for the front seat, but what about the back? I doubt you’d have 4 passengers all up front with you in the passenger seat.

          I’ve never been in a Tesla, but according to the owner’s manual the emergency release for the back seat is a cable behind a hidden panel, and not all models actually have that hidden panel.

        • @LePoisson@lemmy.world
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          413 days ago

          Sweet, what about back seat folks?

          Also those other cars have easier ways of getting out in event for a power failure, not having to open a separate hidden compartment and pull a cable.

          I’ve been in Teslas and I’m not going to buy one. My used 2009 Mazda 3 has better build quality than the brand new Teslas. Silly AF

          • @Stoposto@lemmy.world
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            -213 days ago

            Good to know this isn’t about fuckcars at all, it’s about fuck Tesla and changes to upset the Gas industry.

            Good to know as I’d rather enjoyed Lemmy but if it’s a Russia, Saudi and US lobby pushing their agenda here, ohh well

        • @madcaesar@lemmy.world
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          413 days ago

          What the hell are you on about? Seatbelts were introduced to SAVE lives, removing handles was done to look cool.

          • @Stoposto@lemmy.world
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            -213 days ago

            They where made to open car doors and Tesla chose a design which you can find on cars from 1990 on sportscars to reduce drag and increase efficiency.

            But ok let’s stick to the pickup truck handles and efficient…

    • @refalo@programming.dev
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      613 days ago

      Why is it Lemmy is okay with Outrage culture when it targets Tesla/SpaceX/Apple, yet criticized else where?

      Is that a serious question?

      • @Stoposto@lemmy.world
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        13 days ago

        It is. I very much enjoy fuckcars and push for public transport when possible. However I hate the traditional car companies more for lying and burying alternatives to ICE more than I do the one company that in 10 years changed a stagnant Gas/Benzin polluting product which got bigger and bigger to a now Electric alternatives. That includes the side effect in my city for electric busses which were not a thing before said company and the change in zeitgeist around EV vs ICE.

        So yes I’m in fuck cars and I am saying while I hate the current CEO of the company, I also recognize their success have pushed and improved my local public transport system and city (which in 2030 will ban all ICE cars from its center with a much larger push towards public alternatives at the same time).

    • @ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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      513 days ago

      How the fuck is being sad about preventable deaths “outrage culture”?

      Why does stoposto promote Shitty Post Culture?